Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:24 Good morning, afternoon, evening, wherever you are in the world right now. This is Emer Wang of the Raw Entrepreneur. I am doing this special little post project, which is still in his works with my good friend Shayna Ellen, um, who is in the us and she has very kindly, um, you know, agreed to handhold me where I read through the Forever Dog with her. Um, and we sort of do a book review chapter by chapter, uh, per episode. And we are doing chapter three today, which is the Science of Aging. And it's quite a big chapter, um, compared to the first two, I have to say. Um, so Shayna, what you're thinking,
Speaker 2 00:01:15 I'm thinking this is a really good chapter. A lot of good points are talked about, a lot of things you can take away and learn from this that you may not have realized are going on inside the body. Um, the whole chapter is about the science of aging and how fast our dogs age and what we can do to hopefully kind of slow that down and throttle that back a little bit and help them move longer.
Speaker 1 00:01:37 Yeah. So there's a lot of like scientific terms that you're gonna read in this chapter that might freak you out initially, but if you just go with the flow and, you know, maybe the first time gets a bit bumpy, but if you read it again and again, and it is sort of after a while, it sinks in. So basically they're trying to tell you, you know, life as we know is a ongoing cycle. So basically they're trying to explain the, the yourselves so they'll die and then they will build, you know, there's a cycle of regeneration, destruction, regeneration, destruction, regeneration. And what they're trying to tell you is, well, what my personal takeaway is that, you know, aging is kind of normal. Don't be scared. We all age, you know, and there, and there are signs to aging both physically, uh, mentally and whatnot. But the thing is, um, there are ways to improve on it.
Speaker 1 00:02:37 So you don't have to fear aging, uh, time-wise chronologically. It doesn't mean that, you know, as you get older you're gonna get more unfit. Um, actually I found that for myself personally, I'm 48 this year, and basically I am getting healthier compared to when I was in my twenties and thirties, honestly, cuz I was super, super unhealthy then. So I'm, I feel that, you know, because I'm, I've been making lifestyle changes, um, it has improved my health, but I have to thank my animals for that because if it wasn't for the fact for my love of my cats and dogs, um, and making a lot of mistakes, I wouldn't have, uh, come onto Dr. Karen Becker and Rodney Herbi, you know, who wrote this amazing book to share, you know, the little biohacks and, and uh, scientific, uh, the current scientific studies going on right now. So with this aging thing, um, oh, how old was your dog, Shayna when your dog
Speaker 2 00:03:45 Passed? My Bernice was eight when he passed away. He just turned eight that November and he died about a, about three or four weeks later.
Speaker 1 00:03:52 Wow. But your Bernice is like a Bernese mountain dog, right?
Speaker 2 00:03:57 Yeah, they're big. You're lucky. You get the average, I think is around like eight to 10. If you can get past that for them, then you're doing really, really good. I know there's people out there that are trying to get them to, um, be, uh, a lot more healthier genetically than what they have been in your past. And that's true for a lot of big dogs because we know the smaller dogs live longer and the bigger dogs don't. And it, uh, that book, the book in chapter three touches on that and why that, why that's the case, the smaller dogs live longer, the bigger dogs don't, and how that affects their whole, um, metabolic rate and everything that goes on internally. But yeah, trying to get these bigger dogs that live longer would definitely make pet parents a lot happier to have them around for a little while. But
Speaker 1 00:04:41 Yeah, definitely. So, you know, um, this chapter actually goes into quite a bit of, um, scientific terms that you get to read. You know, like DNA telomeres, um,
Speaker 2 00:04:55 Your two Ns and cellular senescence
Speaker 1 00:04:57 Yeah. Zombie cells, you know, things that, um, sounds a bit sci-fi, you know, um, walking the bed kind of thing. But, um, it's, it's actually, if, if you start reading it, and what's, what I always found very interesting again, is that all these studies, um, will actually to improve human lifespan. Most of the studies done so they, they actually did a lot of studies on dogs because it, because they age a lot faster than us. Um, yeah. And so the, so scientists felt that, okay, we study, you know, longevity on the dogs will get a pretty good picture on how we will age because they age a lot faster than Earth. So the thing is, whatever you are reading in this chapter, you can actually re honestly apply it to yourself. It's interest, exactly the same thing. Um,
Speaker 2 00:06:00 I will say, um, they do mention Davidson Sinclair and his research on sirtuins and how the zombie cells are and how those our cells need to die off and regenerate. And if they don't, what happens? His book Lifespan is called, um, it's called Lifespan. Why We and Why We Don't Have To, I actually read that after Dr. Becker had Yeah. Spoken to you about it. Um, I think a couple years back. And I was like, well that's interesting. So there's other books that kind of spin off from what you wanna learn about that you can read on. And I learned a lot reading that one that was really, really fascinating to, to learn how the body is supposed to be and function and how you can help it live, um, a lot healthier into older age.
Speaker 1 00:06:46 Yeah, I think one, one of the things that I, I sort of, it hit me was, um, maybe not, so I can't remember really in this chapter that was mentioned, but, um, cuz I just watched the insight scoop as well, just, just like, you know, this weekend, right? And we were talking about, um, how intermittent fasting or time restricted eating, right? And why, why that's important. And one of the things is our bodies, when you are digesting, you are not giving your body a chance to renew this immune system, to regenerate the immune, to heal, recover your immune system. So this aging thing sort of, um, for me goes, ti really ties into that because we, you know, we, we are, you know, I think everyone would like to live as long as possible to be as fit and healthy as possible to the very end of your life.
Speaker 1 00:07:53 And more so with our dogs. So they, it talks a lot about, you know, how healthy cells get the cell damage and then the zombie cells come in, you know, and doc, uh, David Sinclair, his book Lifespan, I mean like, um, I actually do highly recommend if you're really interested to, to read that and, you know, um, because yeah, it's fascinating stuff, really. It is because, um, if you see a current picture of what he looks like now, he honestly doesn't look his age. He looks a lot younger, you know? Yeah. So there is a way to reverse aging.
Speaker 2 00:08:31 Yeah. And to touch on your topic of fasting, it's a, it's mentioned a little bit more in chapter four, but it was talked about this past weekend because there was a couple of viral posts that sparked some energy over the last week. But what the, um, I think that the casual pet parent may not understand is what happens and what the benefit is. Now, there's many instances where the, your dog will tell you when he's hungry, you know, our bodies do the same thing. They tell us when they're hungry and that develops, um, on your ghrelin and your leptin levels. But what a lot of people may not realize is A M P K, and that's an anti-aging enzyme. And what the benefit of auto autophagy is says when you fast, for example, mTOR is suppressed and am m PK cleans house. So mTOR is a whole enzyme that does its job in the body, um, helping to calm down, you know, rep cell replication and am pk is what goes through.
Speaker 2 00:09:30 It's kind of like having like the cleaning crew going through your body, you know, and when you're feeding your dog, um, or free feeding, when, you know, dogs and cats have access to food all the time and you're constantly getting that glucose spike and the in insulin spike when their bodies are constantly eating, the cleaning crew can't come by and pick up all the trash. It even says that in the book, you know, it's just like your body starts to pile up with like all these little trash deposits. It'd be like the, the garbage man never coming down in your street to pick up the trash as they do once a week in the neighborhoods. Like if you just keep throwing stuff out there, you're wasted food into the street and the garbage man never comes by because you're just having a constant party, then how, how is everything gonna get cleaned up?
Speaker 2 00:10:14 So the body needs that break of fasting. It doesn't have to be for, you know, a terribly long time. It can just be from, you know, seven o'clock at night until nine o'clock in the morning. That's actually pretty simple to do without even thinking about it. And we can do that for our dogs as well. Um, healthy dogs, not for puppies, not for sick dogs. Sick dogs are on medication, you know, have the requirements too. But for the, for the average healthy dog, um, you want those health benefits and learning what a p k does and what autophagy is and what mTOR is, and how to get rid of those zombie cells that you don't want camping out in the body.
Speaker 1 00:10:51 Yeah, definitely. So, you know, this this thing I actually do highly recommend like for, you know, like pet parents who want to learn and understand more about the aging process. Um, it might sound a bit off-put initially, but, um, Rodney does, has done some really good, um, podcast video lives that you can actually look at at planet pause and stuff. You know, just, just Google them or, you know, become a member of the insights group because they have tons of indepth, like, like good stuff in there if you really wanna dive deep. Um, but basically like this chapter is really, you know, educating you on what is aging and the different stages of aging, how it happens if the cell is in the body and, and you know, basically yeah. You know, things shut down after a while. You have a good run and then the machine, you know, starts to break down eventually.
Speaker 1 00:11:50 Um, so, you know, the signs of aging are usually, you know, the diseases that we, we get, um, you know, from, I dunno, cancer, kidney disease, you know, all these autoimmune disease, um, um, dementia, you know, doggy dementia is actually pretty similar to human dementia, Alzheimer's. So they talk about, you know, how all these things come about and yeah, it's, it's like I'm so tempted to read a lot of the chapter, but I'm like, you know, it's like I actually wonder the listeners to actually also read it to, to, to get a feel for it. Um, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:12:30 It, it takes a bit and you might have to read a couple of pa uh, pages or paragraphs again to let that kind of sink in or let it melt and then go back and read it again.
Speaker 1 00:12:39 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:39 Just to understand it, if, if you haven't done a dive or the rabbit hole into some of these, you
Speaker 1 00:12:45 Know, uh, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:46 Deeper, more detailed topics.
Speaker 1 00:12:47 Yeah. And they actually cite a lot of the, the, the studies, um, in this chapter as well. And they, and they bring up, you know, um, people who, who have studied orders, you know, from little dogs to big dogs, you know, why, why certain things happen and yeah, I don't know. Uh, what else do you think hormonal changes is also one of the things that, um, no, you mentioned size, you know, big dogs, small dogs and age and weight, you know, in terms of aging. Um, the other thing is, uh, something that is near and dear to my heart as a rescuer, sterilization, uh, nurturing, and Spain. Spain. So, you know, there's this huge debate, uh, with, with certain, um, certain circles on when and if you should, um, sterilize your dog. And this is something, to be honest, in Singapore, um, not this, no one really talks about cuz we accept that, okay, we should stray.
Speaker 1 00:13:55 Dogs have to be sterilized. So like, my, my, my monro, she was sterilized, but she, when she came to me at seven months for her home tr she was already on heat, her first heat cycle. So I didn't, I didn't sterilize her to, uh, much a little bit later, you know, um, I think towards the, almost her first year then I, I sterilized her because the vet said like, oh, you have to wait, you know, for a few months after that, um, kind of thing. So, um, yeah, as, as a, as a rescuer and some of the adoptions over here in Singapore, I'm not so sure about in the us but, um, if your dog, like say a stray dog, they actually want you to make sure that your dog's sterilized Yeah. Um, to prevent, uh, you know, um, accidental pregnancies. Cuz we do have a problem here of overpopulation, um, because there's a high rate of abandonment and, um, like the, the breed, the, the so-called, um, dogs that are bred, you know, the pure bread dogs, uh, that people buy from breeders here. Yeah. Either, I don't know professionally or not professionally. Sometimes I think, um, the, uh, the ethics of breeding here is, is quite low. So the quality of the dogs that come out, uh, might not be so healthy genetically as well, you know. Um, but yeah, Spain and nutrient, um, is something that is hotly debated and how you should, you know, spay and ute. So in this book, Dr. Becker actually talks about how you can do it without removing their hormonal, um, what you call it,
Speaker 1 00:15:57 The hormonal, yeah. The hormonal parts of, you know, when, when you, when you, when you sterilize them, you leave the hormones intact so that they can still, uh, grow naturally. You know? Um, because one thing I have noticed here is, um, a lot of the rescue dogs, stray dogs, they're new to really, really young, usually about maybe four months, some, some of them. And they grew up with a really strange body. Um, they have really long, skinny legs. They look like Italian, greyhound, you know, very tall and skinny and, um, yeah. And, uh, there's, um, a lot of pet parents are here say, oh, um, I think my dog has Italian greyhound jeans in, in them because of the shape. And I, I'm, I might say, well, actually it could be because you sterilize your dog really young, so that means that the growth hormone kept growing like the bones and they couldn't put a cap on on, I don't know if I'm saying it right, but, you know, a cat on the growth platelets to cloth so that, you know, they close normally, you know, like naturally as a, as an adult dog when it's their time.
Speaker 1 00:17:14 Um, but because we, we sterilize them too young, the hormones will remove. So they just kept growing, growing, growing, growing. But um, that actually will lead to, uh, certain health conditions with the bones later on, like hip dysplasia and, and stuff like that. Um, so this is, this is something that in Singapore, it's still not very, uh, like common knowledge here. You know, they still think like, oh, it's, you are a good parent if you sterilize young. Um, you know, and I've actually asked my vet before, um, when I read about Dr. Becker's recommendation, how to the alternative way of sterilizing, and they said, oh, never heard of it.
Speaker 2 00:17:56 Mm,
Speaker 1 00:17:58 Not common.
Speaker 2 00:17:59 Yeah, not common.
Speaker 1 00:18:00 It's never
Speaker 2 00:18:01 Learned that over here. Yeah. Same over here with the rescues. If you adopt, they want 'em, um, spade and neutered as soon as you get 'em, if they're not already. And I remember my first golden retriever I adopted, and I'm pretty sure we had 'em done right after we got 'em, if not before we could take 'em home. My Bernice was a pure bread. I got 'em from a local ethical breeder. So I wanted to start 'em, I wanted that, that eight week, nine week old puppy. I wanted to do it. And I was like, oh my goodness, that's a lot of work.
Speaker 1 00:18:31 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:18:31 <laugh>. But, uh, I remember taking him to the vet and the vet kind of guilted me into doing it right around six, seven months. I remember he kind of made a, it was a humorous, uh, way of saying it to him, but he made me feel guilty about waiting so long and then learning after the fact why I should have waited a little longer until he was closer to two years old, how much it would've benefit Hi benefited him because he ended up with a torn acl. And it wasn't until he had a torn ACL that I remember talking to the lady I got, uh, my Bernice from, she's like, Hey, there's kind of been some talk about some studies going, um, recently that they have found out if they get spayed too soon or neutered too soon they can have ACL injuries. I was like, dad explains it because the growth plates didn't form naturally like they should have. Yeah. So their joints can be a lot weaker. And when you have a big dog even, or an athletic dog or you know, any dog for that matter or cat, you want their joints and tendons and growth plates to be as strong as possible. So that's a lot of things that people don't realize because of the vets may not know, we don't want overpopulation of dogs and cats, for sure. We, but we wanna do it the right way.
Speaker 1 00:19:45 Yeah. So this, this chapter might be a bit difficult. Um, you know, in terms of the mindset for sterilization, especially, I think in, in my part of the wall, um, with a lot of rescuers, they, they, they might, you know, like get very upset, you know, about these things or sensitive about it. But what, um, you know, Dr. Becker has actually, um, if you google like, there is alternative ways of sterilizing without removing their hormone, their hormones, leaving it intact so that they can age and grow naturally and, you know, healthily so that they don't have to, um, get, you know, um, and unhealthy a lot faster than, than actually, you know, uh, expected. You know? Um, so that, that, that's something that really got me thinking like, ooh, if, if I have another dog, you know, like, you know, they're saying like, oh, like if I could have a puppy again, you know, how would I do it?
Speaker 1 00:20:52 Not that I'm doing it right now, cuz I go to full house, but, you know, I like to daydream about it, you know. But yeah. So yeah, so these things, and I would say there are lots and lots of studies mentioned in this book, like the dog aging project as well was mentioned in this chapter, um, where it's, it's if you are based in the US and you would like to, you can actually sign up your dog, um, as part of their studies, you know, um, you are gonna fill in some forms and stuff, but I think it's pretty cool. I wish when I first heard, I thought, oh, I can, I can do it for my dog, but I live in Singapore so I don't count, you know. Um, but it's, it's, um, there are a lot more studies going on now, and so if you are interested in taking part in these things, you know, um, do check them out. The ones that I mentioned here, you know, um, because you also could be contributing to the future of dog science, honestly.
Speaker 2 00:21:57 Very true. Very true. And very beneficial.
Speaker 1 00:22:00 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And then, you know, with, I think this is another, another part of the chapter that really got to me again is it, it gets a bit heavy because they're trying to introduce concepts, but, um, you know, they talk about food, chemicals when you're cooking your food, you know, um, and what it can do to your body, uh, your dog's body. And you know, I I I started to read things like, you know, a g e, you know, um, and I was like, what the hell is that? You know? And, uh, what was it? IGF one, um, you know, so,
Speaker 2 00:22:52 And MRPs and ales
Speaker 1 00:22:54 And <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:22:55 All the acronyms. There's so many to remember.
Speaker 1 00:22:59 Yes. And, but there's this one term, the mead or mead, uh, reaction, um, depends how you pronounce it. But the mead reaction, you know, and, and basically the MRPs is the develop reaction product. So it's basically when you cook something, correct me if I'm wrong, a sheena, if you cook something, um, this, it, it, it goes, you change the nature of the food, right? And when you, when you cook it, it turns into, uh, what do you call it? Glycation. Glycation, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:37 Yep. Glycation occurs anytime there's heat with glucose and protein found together, it's chemical reaction that occurs both inside and outside our bodies.
Speaker 1 00:23:46 Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's these things that start to, that, you know, uh, open your mind a bit, especially if you're new to this on how commercial pet food products could actually be contributing to your dog's, uh, poor health long term.
Speaker 2 00:24:10 Yeah. You think about it and the way processed food is made, processed pet food, and you get those little brown balls we've talked about, you know, you've got sugar in there and you've got proteins in there, and then you heat it up, guess what happens? You get glycation. So that's happening outside the body. And it says, when glycation occurs in food processing, it's referred to the mayard reaction and the end result is mayard reaction products. And there's a second type of MRPs that occurs when dietary fats are heated with protein, which results in lipid peroxidation. So those are called ales, advanced lip, advanced lip oxidation end products are ales. So there's many chemical processes that we are not told about that we are very unaware of that happen in food processing. And then that also happen in the body if you eat those same things, cuz our bodies are warm, and if you eat sugar and protein, you're gonna have glycation happening on the inside. You heat it up during food processing with fats and sugars and proteins and everything. And you're getting a lot of chemical reactions going on that are contributing to aging faster.
Speaker 1 00:25:17 Yeah. And this is acronym which they, you know, when they talk about, um, the a GE and all that, um, an EC glycation stuff, it's rage, R A G E. Um, so it's like, yeah, it's, it's something that as a pet parent, you will start to look at, you know, what are you feeding your animal? And have you ever considered, you know, how many times has your dog's food ingredient been cooked? Because the more cycles of cooking it goes through, the more a GEs um, you know, the more glycation is, is is, um, generated or produced and, and this is something that really is, um, a bat bad thing.
Speaker 2 00:26:10 Yeah. They reference, yeah, they reference a study, a 2018 study outta the Netherlands that says, um, they had found dogs consume up to 122 times that ags in their diets as humans do. And think about it, if they're, if they're, if kibble is cooked up to at least four times during processing, it's definitely gonna replicate that a g or that glycation process. And when that's all they eat all the time, they don't, if your dog is not getting as much fresh food as you are and they're only only eating ultra processed food, then yeah, it definitely can support the, um, idea that they're getting 122 times the ags and aging faster or having ation to that.
Speaker 1 00:26:54 Yeah. And you know, you know, we've been taught of brainwashed for the, I mean, the longest time that fat is a bad thing, you know, uh, you know, the well,
Speaker 2 00:27:07 That fat makes you fat and it doesn't <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:27:10 Yeah. So there's good fat and bad fat, right? So, so the thing is, you have to start actually understanding the difference and why is it good and why, you know, um, why is it bad kind of thing. And that good fats is actually needed for both humans and animals to actually be healthy and smart and alert. You know, um, I remember when I was growing up, um, you know, say like, pop lot is bad. There's, you know, um, don't take butter, take margarine. And, and the thing is, if you apply what you are reading here about the ags and how many times it's processed, then you think like, ooh, actually margarine is processed and it's not really good. You know, uh, where's natural fats, like proper, you know, organic or, you know, natural cow butter or, you know,
Speaker 2 00:28:05 Avocados, coconut oil,
Speaker 1 00:28:07 Avocado. Yeah. These are good fats. And when you consume them, you're actually helping your body, which actually needs these fats to, you know, maintain their immune system, their organs, you know, the, the mental health, um, your skin and everything. Um, very important. So this, this, this chapter sort of like really, you know, um, starts to break you into the science of aging, like, as best as they can. So don't get put off just, you know, read a few times. It's not so bad, really. Um,
Speaker 2 00:28:44 And one thing to know too, um, if, if the reader's not aware is that the kibble companies, the processed food, uh, pet food manufacturers, they're not required to test for those glycation or the glyphosate or the toxins or the ages or the ales. There's no testing required. So you're kind of, I wouldn't adventure to say going blind about what, how much, how much, uh, ags and glycation happen in that food. Because if they're not required to test for it, they're probably not going to, and you'll never know. So it's just one more thing to be aware of, of why it's important to add fresh food to the diet, to reduce that load going into the body. The whole point of, you know, feeding species appropriate and feeding fresh food is to get your dog to live longer, your cat to live longer. Because when they consume these ultra processed food with all these chemical reactions that are in them, that's causing, you know, cellular senescence and zombie cells to be floating around and you're, um, your am pk not functioning like it should, you know, all those things play all these factors. And it's not to overwhelm, but it's just to help you understand what's going on so you can take the proper steps to, uh,
Speaker 1 00:29:58 Yeah, yeah. Help
Speaker 2 00:30:00 Your body.
Speaker 1 00:30:01 Because, you know, a lot of pet parents, we think that the government agency will protect and look out for the welfare of our animals, especially when it comes to the products that we use on them. But honestly, um, it's not law. It's not required to test for these things. And there's, I would say there's a deep corruption going on with, with these, you know, um, big pet food companies and government agencies, um, where I believe they know these things, but you know, they, they don't wanna talk about it. You know, they don't wanna highlight these things. So it's really up to you as the pet parent who to realize how your pet food is manufactured. Because once you understand how your pet food's manufactured, you might seriously wanna start rethinking what you're feeding your animal, you know, to improve its pet health. Because at the end of the day, no, bringing your dog to the vet is an expensive visit most times. I mean, like for me, I know in the US they have insurance coverage for pet parents. Now we have some in Singapore, but it's not, it's not really comprehensive, you know? Um, and again, you know, if, well, I don't know, call me conspiracy theorists, but, uh, some of the policies where they actually advocate that they insist to qualify, you must have your annual vaccinations done to qualify for the insurance coverage. Uh, to me it's like, uh, big no, no,
Speaker 1 00:31:34 You know, for me, because now I know better, but I didn't before. So, you know, the, these are things that, you know, when you start like really finding out how things are, are done and organized and, and, um, what regulations are actually, you know, being enforced and created. Uh, yeah. You start to be a lot more aware of like, okay, um, you should take control of your dog's health.
Speaker 2 00:32:03 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. It'll, it'll save you a lot of frustration and,
Speaker 1 00:32:07 And heartache,
Speaker 2 00:32:08 Energy in the long run and heartache. Yeah. The more you can do things ahead of the game and be proactive about their health. So yeah. When most of us have been down that road, that's why we advocate. I always tell people, I'm like, I am trying to keep you from going through everything that I went through because it was not pleasant. And anybody who's been through it, they, you, you make your mistakes, you'll learn from 'em, and you try to do better the next time with the knowledge you gain and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, we just wanna help prevent that type of heartache or constantly being at the vet for, you know, know the body not functioning properly. It's, it's a lot of time and energy and effort and, and heartache and it can be frustrating and stressful when your, when your dog or your cat is not healthy. So anything we can do to implement, you know, easy practices and understanding how the body works a little bit better definitely saves you in the long run.
Speaker 1 00:32:58 Yeah. One thing here in this chapter is where they talk about <laugh> food, recalls pet food recalls, and I mean, there's a table and stuff that, you know, go go and read it. But basically, you know, what's interesting is a lot of the stuff that was recalled, da da da, the, it's um, really a lot of them will basically process commercial processed food, you know, from the kibbles the trees to the canned food. So you have to ask yourself as a pet parent, um, why, why is that? You know, and again, it really goes back to how were the food, how was your food prepared, how was your dog food prepared? Um, you know, one of the things that I think all pet parents like is giving dog treats, you know, we, we love to give treats and stuff and I remember my friend used to give me milk bones to give to dogs, right?
Speaker 1 00:33:55 Yeah. Buy milk bones, cuz it was like the, the thing, right? Um, but as I started to, uh, improve my knowledge on how, how pet food was made and how treats are made, uh, what ingredients are put in, um, I sort of started to, you know, actually with some bit more convictions. Like, no, no, no, milk bones for me. Thank you. Not for my dog. And, uh, do you know how they're made? Uh, if you don't, maybe you should. Yeah, I'll send you some links, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> to, to, to, to find out, uh, what, what do they actually put inside these
Speaker 2 00:34:31 Things? Yeah. And we have it, there's some, um, national chain pet stores that are here. I've, I've been in before when I had my dog and in like, the registers have like a little built-in treat container. Either, either there's a, you know, a box of treats sitting on the counter or there's like, there's like this little like hatch in the countertop to where you can see the, um, milk bone style treats in there. And, and so the cashiers can offer a treat to your dog as you're at the checkout. And I remember getting asked, you know, this was years ago when I knew that they weren't the best thing. I didn't totally know what was in 'em, I wasn't reading labels at the time, but I knew something wasn't quite right and I knew I didn't want that for my dog. So there can be instances where you are, um, offered a processed treat without even knowing it.
Speaker 2 00:35:19 And it might just be, you know, one here or there, but the thing, you gotta realize whether they're getting that treat at the counter at the pet store or even at the vet, I had to turn down, um, vet techs who would offer, you know, biscuit treats for my dog too. And I'd be like, no, that's just not for me. I don't, don't, I, you know, politely turned it down. I didn't want that in the system for a, what was in it B because he had a sensitive stomach. You gotta watch out for, you know, different things he, your dogs get offered, but there's a theory that it's, oh, it's just a little bit here. It's just a little bit there. But those things add up over time and that's what degrades the body. So that's a lot of thing people don't think about is, oh, it's just a little bit, it's just a little bit, it's just a little bit.
Speaker 2 00:36:03 But if they're eating all day long and then they're eating foods and treats that have these glycation process that have happened in 'em that we're, we don't know about quite yet, or we unaware of, and then we wonder why our dog is, um, you know, aging faster or declining in health at an earlier age, we assume that just comes with age. Cuz that's what we're told. We're like, oh, well you just get all, yeah, it just happens. Yeah. It just happens because of everything that happened over the course of your life, every little bit thing all added up to get you to the end result of them, you know, being in poor health by the time they're 8, 9, 10, 12. If you can get a long life out of 'em, then that's great. And some people do, they get really long lives, even with their dogs. I've seen lots of comments and stories from people that they're like, oh, I've had, you know, x, y, z kibble for, you know, 18 years.
Speaker 2 00:36:54 My dog was fine. They could have had a very genetically predisposed healthy dog. It's the luck of the draw. You can get really good genetics. So that's why the story's different for everybody. You can have those long lived dogs that live on processed food and be fine. They happen to be blessed with great genetics, you know, and not every dog is that lucky. So that's the thing to understand too, is every dog is different and we gotta treat each one. You know, you take care of the dog that's in front of you, you feed the dog that's in front of you and you try to do the best you can with the knowledge you have.
Speaker 1 00:37:25 Yeah. One, one thing about this chapter as well, um, it talks about how dog cakes or kibble was created. Um, you know, Shayna do you, do you wanna, you wanna talk about James Pratt briefly here, just to give people an idea.
Speaker 2 00:37:45 <laugh>, I don't know if I'm a's a fan of James Sprt. <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:37:50 Well he was an electrician, right? Oh, sales guy. You was,
Speaker 2 00:37:53 He was an electrician and a lightning run salesman from Ohio. The whole reason we're in this boat is because of an electrician from 1860 <laugh>. Like dogs ate real food for the longest time for thousands and thousands of years, but get old, Jane sprt came around and I believe this story is told where he was on a boat or near a boat in England and he saw dogs eating the hard tack off the boats that the sailors had threw over. And he was, you know, light bulb moment <laugh> went off for him. He's like, oh, dogs love this. So that's when he created the patented meat fi dog cake <laugh>. That is how ki got it start. And that's how where we ended up today,
Speaker 1 00:38:40 <laugh>. Yeah. So I mean, like, I'm not, I don't think we'll go too much in it, but it's a good yarn and it's a, it's really important I think for a lot of pet parents who don't know the story of how science diet came about kibble and all that prescription diet. Um, you should read this because it actually will give you the history of how all this was created and the so-called first prescription vet, um, pet food. And what's interesting is that, um, you know, when they say it's vet endorsed, vet recommended, um, any vet can just say it and be paid to say it. It doesn't mean that it's, it's, it's the best thing in the world for your animal. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the food, the scientific, you know, results of the food. You know, like, um, nothing to do with that. So, you know, it's like Colgate, the toothpaste, you know, when dentist started to promote, you know, like Colgate's the best and that's how I got brainwashed into using Colgate when I was young, honestly. Yeah. You know, because you
Speaker 2 00:39:54 Go to the dentist and they're like, here's your toothpaste. They tell you on the commercials, three outta four dentists recommended, you know, but it's just an easy little marketing thing and that's things we gotta learn to look past, whether it be for toothpaste or, you know, pet products.
Speaker 1 00:40:09 So this chapter actually was start to educate you on the marketing PLOS and the tactics that companies started to use to sell these products that basically were not the best quality because a lot of these ingredients were honestly the cheapest ingredients that they could scrounge and put together because, you know, it's, it's considered waste products in the human industry to be used and solve as pet food ingredients. Right? So this is really, um, this is why I say it gets a little bit heavy, um, you know, but I think it's a really important chapter where you actually start to get the basic foundation of how a lot of the big pet food companies will create it. Cuz when you understand their history, you'll see why, you know, why they're doing what they're doing today. Because a lot of it, it's, it's all basically profit.
Speaker 2 00:41:06 Yes. It is all for profit. Yeah. There's even a graph in there that tells you who owns who and how much money they made. It talks about the annual revenue in 2019 and it'll, it'll blow your mind when you read how many billions and billions of dollars that they made off of all the companies that they own. And even if they do have really great marketing, or even if they do say vet recommended, it's always worth reading those ingredient labels and not just trusting what's on the front of the bag.
Speaker 1 00:41:35 Yeah. When I, when, when, when Rodney and Dr. Becker started to, you know, advocate, like start, just read the ingredient list at the back of the can of the bag of food bef you know, that you're buying and, and see how you feel. And when I started doing that, I started get a headache because 99% of the words, the ingredients, I really didn't know what they were. Oh, I thought I did. But the more I read, I realized that oh, the terminology that they are allowed to use is not equivalent to what it's, what it means to us in the, in the human fresh food industry that we are used to like, you know, what's organic might not even be organic. What is, you know, grass fed, grass finish. I mean, there's so many things that you, as you learn more about these things, your mind gets blown away each time. I mean, there's so many limiting beliefs that get blown away page by page, line by line in this book, um, as you read it because, um, you'll just realize how deep the rabbit hole when it comes to pet food industry, um, what they do to, to produce package sell market, you know, to you, you know, um, how ethical it is. A it's
Speaker 2 00:42:52 A lot to take in.
Speaker 1 00:42:53 It's a lot to take in. So, you know, um, yeah, this is a really important chapter, really. Mm. Well, we've mentioned about epigenetics switches before in the past, like your, our dna n you know, as you mentioned, like, you know, like, um, your dog's, d n a, um, the epigenetics, like what you do with the lifestyle environment and stuff is also part of how you can trigger how you can, you know, either, um, increase the age pro, the aging process of your dog or not. Um, you know, so DNA is important. You know, we all know DNA is <inaudible> dna, but there are ways to, uh, improve your chances of a healthier lifespan. Even say if you are genetically predisposed to certain, um, diseases, there are ways that you can avoid it, you know? Uh, and, and, and how, you know, you can change it. Yeah. You know, prevent those switches from, you know, going up and down. You can actually do that. So
Speaker 2 00:44:06 Yeah. It's, it's completely up to us to make the decisions for our dogs and what they eat, what goes into their body. And we talked about this in the last episode, or you know, the environmental changes, things that can harm their epigenetics, but food definitely plays the factor, what you're putting down in that bowl and what they're eating can decide in the body which genes it can kind of, um, what they call 'em up-regulate or down-regulate, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that goes with food that goes into, you know, a little bit of intermittent fasting plays with that. A little bit of circadian rhythm plays in with that. It's several fes. Yeah. But yeah, sleep.
Speaker 1 00:44:44 Yeah, sleep is so important. Exercise how active you are and what are the things that, in this book is, you're reading it, right. And some of the studies or some of the dogs that they talk about, the healthiest, longest lived dogs who all imagine is farm dogs, working dogs who might probably, who only ate maybe once a day. Sometimes they didn't even eat for that day because you just running, you know, in the farm. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:45:15 Yep. Getting that exercise, getting that outdoor time, getting, you know, sometimes they, they're so active, especially if you got like a, um, a hurting dog, you know, a working dog. They can be so active that they, you know, don't even, who doesn't cross your mind because the body's doing something else in that moment, you know, for hours at a time. Just like when you, you get busy at work or you're just working on a project and before you know it, like your whole day's gone, you're like, wait a minute, I totally forgot to, you know, eat lunch. You weren't even hungry because your brain was just going and doing what it needed to do. Yeah. And that's the same for our dogs, especially when they're working dogs or hurting dogs, you know? Yeah. Sometimes you might have that lab that likes to be a, um, oh, what's the term? Like a, a couch pillow, you know? And <laugh>, I think labs are like, pretty much they, they would eat all day every day if you let them <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:46:08 That's because, isn't that because genetically they will bred in such a way that they don't have to gene to know when to stop. I
Speaker 2 00:46:17 Think intake, I think that's where
Speaker 1 00:46:19 Golden retrievers and Labrador, the reason why they eat, eat, eat nonstop is because they were genetically bred in such a way for the appearance, right. That genetically inside certain genes went missing. And one of them was the, the fact that they don't know when to stop.
Speaker 2 00:46:37 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:46:37 They don't know when to stop. So that that's, oh,
Speaker 2 00:46:41 It's easier to train them if they're food motivated. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:46:45 Yeah. But you know, again, it's like, um, yeah, so there are ways to, <affirmative> is ways to improve and slow down the aging process so that you can actually age gracefully because, you know, we are always so obsessed with lifespan, but we forget that, you know, now the term is, you know, make sure your lifespan equals your health spann. So as long as you live, make sure you're healthy as long as you live. Whereas some people, you know, they, they wanna live over, but I don't see the point of living. Oh, if you're gonna be unhealthy, then I don't want that kind of life. You know, I, I wanna be, for me it's like I be healthy, healthy, healthy, and then boom, <laugh> gone. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:47:27 Yeah. And, and, and as you read this chapter and, and read into the book, you'll notice things, you might hit those little, those moments where you're like, oh, okay. You know, maybe you had a family member that degenerated, you know, maybe too soon in life. They, they still lived longer, but they degenerated too soon. Um, yeah. Because of their lifestyle choices or their food choices over the years, it's the same for us as humans, you know, where we can live longer if we make the right choices environmentally and food wise, we can do the same for our pets as well. So the idea is to not live, you know, to come down with any, some things we, we don't have a whole lot of control over, but we can do the best we can with the knowledge we have. And we don't wanna be 60 years old and like, you know, live de generatively for the rest of those.
Speaker 2 00:48:15 You know, say you live to a hundred, you know, you want to try your best with the access you have to different things or, um, the environment you're in to be as healthy as possible. And we want those for our dogs and cats too. If I could go back and, and change a lot of things with my Bernice, I totally would have, because we had some, we had things that happened that were complete accidents. I had no control over. He broke his leg when he was two and he was on drugs after that for, you know, several weeks till his, uh, bones re healed. We had some a c l indu injuries. And knowing what I know now, I would've definitely treated those better because after the first accident happened, you know, we had some good times, but there was a lot of things I could have implemented that would've helped him be healthier until the universe said, okay, he's done now instead of living those last two, three years with torn acls in kidney disease and cancer rising up, it's a very frustrating process.
Speaker 2 00:49:18 So that's why I'm very, I like to advocate for people to avoid those things because it's not pleasant at all. Yeah. So I would have preferred my dog to be, like you said, healthy, healthy, healthy, and then no longer here as opposed to living a life of pain, inflammation, and a degrading body. He did very well. He did his best. But you know, there's many dogs that go through that. Yeah. That, um, kind of degrade too soon and we all wish we could go back and kind of change things a little bit to have them happier in a quality of life that is good until the end.
Speaker 1 00:49:55 Yeah. So, you know, as you read this chapter, you know, it, it, it will actually introduce to a lot of new concepts, especially if it's your first time and, you know, um, you have to, to keep an open mind about these things because, you know, it, it's, it will run, I think opposite to what you are brought up to believe, honestly. Um, and I think if you keep an open mind and read this and bear, bear in mind that all these were interviews, they interviewed a lot of researcher scientists, you know, who are doing, um, all these studies into longevity. So these, these, um, ideas are not woo stuff. You know, it's not plucked out the air out of, you know, there's a lot of scientific backing for what they're talking about in this book. So, like I said, whatever you read here, you can implement it in your life as well, you know?
Speaker 1 00:50:59 Um, and food for thought, literally, you know, like how, you know, like you want a healthy dog, you also have to be healthy as well if you want to live as long as your dog to take care and enjoy life to the fullest with them, you know? And really, you know, the emotional, having a health happy dog is also very, very important. If your dog is stressed or, you know, in a, in a very negative family environment, your dog's also going to be stressed out. You know? Um, so these, these are things that, you know, uh, you know, like for me, I, I came from a dysfunctional family background cause my parents, so I was drunk. Like sometimes I think like, oh, my prayer should not have gone a merit, should not have children, honestly. You know? Um, but I thank them for doing it because, you know, I'm here now and I'm, we appreciate you're here.
Speaker 1 00:52:00 Yes, we do. I know, but it took me a while to appreciate myself too, you know, because I, I mean like seriously, like I was screwed up for, for the longest. I'm still work, I'm a work in progress. And one of the things that I, my takeaway from my parents' marriage was that I don't wanna have children. I do not wanna get married. I don't believe in it, you know, because I think, cuz I think it's too sacred and it's too easy to screw up cuz I'm so scared of screwing it up. Right. But that's, that's just me, the psychological drama. But the, the thing is, you know, we always talk about, um, if we have children, we don't want them to suffer the way we did. Most, most of us would think that like, oh, um, like if I had a, a wonderful childhood, I want my kids to have a wonderful childhood too.
Speaker 1 00:52:45 But if I had a horrible childhood, most parents would, you know, healthy, healthy parents would say like, I will love my child to have a wonderful childhood. Um, what I found for myself initially that because I have cats and dogs, right when they misbehave, I will revert to guess what, how my parents treat, like used to punish me when I was young or sco me when I was young. Like it's, it's like, you know, like something that is like so subconscious in me that even though I keep saying like, I don't wanna end up like my parents some triggers, if I'm not conscious about it, I will end up being my parents doing exactly what I hate. You know, like, like the terrible temper that I have, you know, and, and just sc there like, hey stop growling, stop barking. You know? Um, and this is, this is something I think a lot of pet parents might, can, might be able to relate to.
Speaker 1 00:53:52 Um, I think especially Asian pet parents cuz we are brought up in a, a lot more conservative, um, society. So we are used to being scolded a lot and you know, being like cane and, you know, punished a lot. So to us it's like if you do something wrong, you're gonna be punished or children should be seen and not hurt, right? So when dogs bark shut up <laugh>, you know, um, and it took me a, a while and I'm still trying to, you know, learn dog behavior cuz I'm not good at it. But when a dog growls or barks, it's not a bad thing that it's their natural of communicating or saying something. And it's up to you to try and figure out what is it they're trying to tell you. Because when we adopt animals like a dog or cat, if you don't know what to expect or understand their behavior, you know, when they come to your home the first time as a pet parent and you're not prepared, they'll be like, they might pee here or you know, shit there because they don't know how to, they're not in the domesticated toilet train.
Speaker 1 00:55:08 They don't know how to read the human language. Like how to live in a, in a home for humans. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:55:14 They have a lot to try to ascertain from our world. I mean, you gotta think about it, it's like having a little naked fuzzy alien in your house and they know how to operate their body for the most part, you know, innately function as a dog or a cat, but you've brought them into like what they would consider an alien home. They're like, what is this thing who's now like giving me food or giving me a, you know, a crate to sleep in? It's a lot for them. So we have to give them a lot more grace
Speaker 1 00:55:46 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:55:47 For them coming into our world.
Speaker 1 00:55:49 Yeah. Yeah. And we really have to make an effort. It, to me, I think like it's all pet parents' responsibility to actually understand basic dog behavior or what to expect when they come into our home to be patient as they get used to living with us. You know? Um, one of my friends he told me the other day, like, his dog grounded him, so he spanked him because he felt that the dog was challenging him. Wow. And, and I was like, your dog's only two years old, he's an only child. Like, I'm like, I said, oh, you don't, you know, it's like, might be trying to tell you something. I mean like, what triggered the growling? I, I asked him, but he, he didn't answer me because he just, you know, but really the question you should be asking yourself is if your dog is making a growling noise, what's triggering it? What, you know, what's the situation? Because you have to understand why, why, why is it, and you know, it's like learning a, a foreign language. You have to, there's intonations, there's, you know, different ways of, of grounds as well. And, and like this is, this is something that pet parents don't. Parents should really make an effort to learn. Um, unfortunately, like I said, in Asia, if a dog grows most of the time we will hit the dog to shut them up. You are disrespectful. Don't talk back. You know? Right.
Speaker 2 00:57:17 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:57:18 And it's like, you know, now that I know better, it is like, ooh, this is so fucked up, <laugh>, this is so fucked up. We, we are damaging our dog psychology by doing that. You know? Um, so the, these are things that um, really as a pet parent, if you understand what you're doing, uh, when you stress out the dog that way the dog gets, get stress. Stress is a trigger for, you know, immune disease as well
Speaker 2 00:57:50 And inflammation as well. Cuz you get stressed and you release that cortisol and you have that cortisol released as constantly every few hours, every day, every situation that comes up, they're constantly on guard that's gonna contribute to early aging as well.
Speaker 1 00:58:03 Yeah. So, you know, even so-called dog behavior, if you don't understand it and if you approach it the wrong way, unfortunately, even with the best intentions, but if you don't understand what you're doing, um, you might be contributing to your dog's ill health because you're gonna stress your dog out a lot faster. Um, so we're coming to the part in the chapter where, you know, they talk about how old is my dog? This is, this is, this is something which, um, I think a lot of dog parents, we, we like to talk about this, how old is my dog? And there is actually the, the, the common myth is that, you know, uh, one dog years equal to seven human years. So, you know, they tell like, oh, if your dog is 10, 10 years old, you just time seven to get the, the dog years or something.
Speaker 1 00:58:53 Right? Um, so that was for, I mean, it's still very common belief, but in this book there's a new formula that they talk about and, and it's, it's like, okay, this is very different from, from, you know, a little bit more, uh, requires a bit more effort. You, um, they do talk about using a scientific calculator here. So if you have one on your, on your phone is, uh, very useful. But the new formula here, which applied to order dogs older than one, says that a canines human eight roughly equals what's the 16 times l n dogs? H Right. Plus 31. Is that right? Shana did I say that right?
Speaker 2 00:59:47 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:59:50 So if you have like your, your smartphone calculator with you, uh, most of them, well, I know the iPhone has it. I don't know about, um, the end right phones, but if you activate your, your calculator on your smartphone, uh, if you have it in the portrait mode is the usual calculator that we're used to. But you turn it on landscape, your scientific calculator will be activated. So they're talking about, um, so my dog, for instance, is 10 years old, so I'm gonna put 10 and then, uh, wait, how, how's that again? Oh, I'm not very smart. About 10
Speaker 2 01:00:32 Work out your dog's human age. First end of the dog's age.
Speaker 1 01:00:36 Yes. So that's 10. Right? And then the lm l n button on your scientific calculator, which I'm doing now.
Speaker 2 01:00:44 Yep. And then you multiplied that figure by 16
Speaker 1 01:00:49 I 16.
Speaker 2 01:00:52 Yep. And then finally you add 31,
Speaker 1 01:00:55 Not 31. See, I can't do this without Shana. So my dog's age is 67.841. So 67 coming close to 68, you're gonna run it up. So that sort of like, ah, my baby, she's so,
Speaker 2 01:01:16 Yeah. And what age, what type a dog is it? Is it like a medium sized dog or large? Yeah,
Speaker 1 01:01:21 She's, she's a Monro, so she's about, um, 6 6 16 kilos. 17 kilos. Okay. I dunno, what's kilograms in your, I think it's times two ish. Okay.
Speaker 2 01:01:38 Maybe around 30 pounds.
Speaker 1 01:01:41 Yeah. She fluctuates, fused on a haage. She speaks, used to be 20, but I'm speaking low <laugh>, keeping her on a healthier diet now.
Speaker 2 01:01:49 Um, yeah. So you're, you're roughly like medium sized dog is, you've had her for 10 years. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but 60, what'd we say? 67 4. 67.
Speaker 1 01:01:59 67, yeah. 67.8. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:02:02 Imagine having a, a, uh, a 10 year old human in human years dog, but actually like 67 year old in human years. It's, that's very mind blowing as well. You know, we forget, like we know that they age, you know, we, we generally go by the multiply by seven gives us a rough estimate, but, uh, the new equation gets you a little bit more accurate, but yeah, they're right close. But, uh, yeah, we're definitely, you hit those senior years a lot sooner than you realized when you had those little flex balls.
Speaker 1 01:02:33 Yeah. You know, so this, this is something, you know, um, I'm looking at her sleeping now, but like yeah. You know, they age a lot faster than we would want to want them to. And when we understand how the aging process is, you know, the science behind it, um, like this chapters explaining, we can slow down the aging process.
Speaker 2 01:03:05 Basically going back to how they were, because if you hear about, you know, Maggie who lived in her thirties, I believe, you know, Augie who lived in her twenties, they didn't eat a whole lot of, you know, Maggie was a farm dog and she fastened herself quite a bit and she got, you know, exercise every single day. A lot of the longest lived dogs that hear stories about they weren't gobbling down, you know, four cups of, you know, the highest, most popular brand of kibble every day. Yeah. They were eating a lot more fresher food and you know, golden retrievers used to live closer to 20 years ago.
Speaker 1 01:03:43 Mind blowing. Mind blowing.
Speaker 2 01:03:45 Yeah. And processed food's only been around for 160 years, so why, you know, correlation doesn't always equal causation, but you gotta think about it, you know, and look at that, zoom out and kind of look at that timeline of when processed food was introduced. It's only been around for 160 years. Dogs used to live a lot longer years ago. And over these 160 years, we have shortened their life and shortened their life and shortened their life. We have some anomalies that people who have stuck with, you know, fresh food even for the last 20 years, they're like, Hey, you know, I think I'm gonna go this fresh food route and see what benefit I get. And, and there's been a lot of great stories. There's some very long lived dogs and cats, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I believe it was it Jake Perry, we've had the longest lived cats and set the goodest record for like two or three Yeah. Cats, I believe. Yeah. You know, sometimes you just, you find those great stories of how they were able to do it and Yeah. You know, if we can add life to our dogs and cats by lessening the, you know, chemical reaction, processed food, and giving them more fresh food that is going to help their body, that's gonna slow down that cellular aging, that's gonna help their body, you know, do the autophagy, you know, calm down that mTOR, you know, clean house.
Speaker 1 01:05:06 Yep.
Speaker 2 01:05:07 We can do our part. We can do tiny little things to do our part to help their body do what it needs to do to live longer.
Speaker 1 01:05:13 Yeah. So, you know, um, when you improve the diet, when you look at your feeding window, like, you know, what time, how long they, they take to eat, you know, um, through that window for the day, their food calories, um, and exercise, it makes a huge difference in improving their lifespan. You know, they, they've become healthier. Um, again, sounds funny, but you can apply it to humans too. Exactly the same thing, you know? Um, so yeah, this, this is, this is a, a heavy chapter for new, for new piece, I think. Um, but if you take your time to read it, and you might need, need to read it a few times, you know, to, to really like, um, understand the terminology use in here, um, it's worth, it's a really good, I think, foundation that they're building up for you to understand, um, part two, three, you know, of, of this book, you know. So I think, yeah, this is, this is quite an intense chapter, but, um, it's really, really important I think, because it, it blows your mind with a lot of things, um, to prepare your way.
Speaker 2 01:06:32 Yeah, definitely. It's definitely some good reading material on that.
Speaker 1 01:06:36 Yeah. So I would say, um, anything else you wanna add, Shana, before we close
Speaker 2 01:06:42 This? No, I think we covered quite a bit.
Speaker 1 01:06:44 Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, have a good read. Um, and you know, like I said, all these are scientific studies. They have all this, you know, they cite it. Um, when you go to the Farmer dog website, they will always update the studies as well. And again, you know, um, the book is printed on a certain date and time. Um, but they will always be updating the studies on the website for these things. Okay. So next week we'll be part two, you know, and sequence from the world's oldest dogs, um, and chapter four, which is, um, de aging True Diet. So we'll go into detail about that one next week again. So thank you everyone. And um, yeah, thank you Shana, for holding my hand and helping me with the calculator,
Speaker 2 01:07:34 <laugh>. Thank you. And you're welcome, <laugh>.
Speaker 4 01:07:37 Wow. I'm so thankful and grateful that you took the time to listen to this podcast. It would mean the word to me if you could subscribe, download, rate, review and share this with others whom you care about that may enjoy it as well. Thank you. And remember to be kind to yourself and others. Have a awesome day, everyone.
