Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:24 He made it <laugh>. Hello? Hello, Dr. <inaudible>. Hello.
Speaker 2 00:00:30 Soun.
Speaker 3 00:00:32 <laugh>. How, how have
Speaker 2 00:00:34 <laugh>? I'm practicing my Mandarin here. It's very rough. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:00:38 Hello,
Speaker 3 00:00:39 Soun. Hi.
Speaker 2 00:00:41 So, so, so <inaudible>. We need a
Speaker 2 00:00:48 <inaudible>, Um, <inaudible> s shek, um, Dr. S sheer right? They, they, they pronounce it differently. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:01:01 <laugh>. Yeah. We dunno how to pronounce his name. Really? <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:01:05 I'm practicing my Mandarin here because my Mandarin is very poor, but I, I come from Singapore. Um, oh. So my, my family name is Wang and one of, and my name in Chinese that mix Y one.
Speaker 3 00:01:22 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:01:23 <affirmative>, uh, ta to,
Speaker 3 00:01:25 Ah, Tim might <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:01:29 So I was just explaining to him Dr. Josie, my Chinese name. Cause you know me as s Wang, but in Chinese, my name, my, uh, in Chinese culture, our family sur name comes first. So it's, it's, uh, in Chinese, My, my sur name's called pronounce as Wang. And my Chinese name is actually Y.
Speaker 1 00:01:50 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:01:51 It's different from Ams. So AMS is my, my, my angle size name. But yeah, my English name. Yeah. And, and y is my Chinese name. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:02:00 Oh, its great to hear you guys talking. So, Well, my last name is, is Anglo size German, because it should be boy, but nobody American can pronounce boy. So it's turned into bug. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:02:16 So you prefer, you prefer, you prefer boy or you prefer the bug
Speaker 1 00:02:22 <laugh> you. Cause that's what I've heard my whole life is like <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:02:32 Oh, Dr. She, thank you so much for saying yes. Uh, and, and, uh, agreeing to talk to us.
Speaker 3 00:02:39 Yeah. We have the about, uh, 8,000 to 10,000 graduates around the world.
Speaker 2 00:02:50 Wow.
Speaker 1 00:02:52 Wow. So,
Speaker 3 00:02:53 So the rental is 8,000 to 10,000 because some of them didn't finish. Some of them just, uh, getting session one, session two, but at this eight actual graduate.
Speaker 1 00:03:05 Mm, Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. And his, we wanted to Amber's, I, she contacted me like, I don't, maybe it's five years ago now. It's a while ago. And she's collecting wants, it's to know like how people get to where they are, especially like veterinarians and holistic veterinarians. Like your story, and I know you've told tidbits of it in class and from way back when, but I, when, when the very first day I walked into veterinary school, I knew I wanted to practice more holistic veterinary medicine. And I walked into the veterinary school on day one and there was a doberman there laying there with all these acupuncture needles in the dog <laugh>. Oh, wow. And, and this was at the University of Wisconsin. And I was like, Oh my goodness, this is, I, I found out what I'm gonna do. I wanna do this, I wanna do acupuncture.
Speaker 1 00:03:57 But I was regular veterinary school. So at the, that was 1994. And so I thought the International Veterinary Acupuncture Society was the only one giving the licensing certification course. So I, I had my eyes set on that all the way through vet school. And then in like 1998, all of a sudden I hear about this man from China who's coming over here to teach acupuncture from China <laugh>. And, and I was like, Oh, that's, that's who I need to learn from. I just knew, I just knew immediately. I was like, No, I need to take classes from him. And so that's part of why I moved to Florida in the first place.
Speaker 3 00:04:40 Oh really? Wow. <laugh>. Yeah. I dunno that
Speaker 1 00:04:43 Cause you were, you were teaching here, so I figured if I don't have money to travel on a plane, I can at least drive and, and come up and take classes from you. So
Speaker 3 00:04:53 I'm sorry. Let you in Florida.
Speaker 1 00:04:56 Yeah, exactly. But actually it's been a pretty good place for the pandemic, right? Yeah. But tell, can you tell us a little bit about what brought you like here and how you started out? Cause I know your father was acupuncturist, right?
Speaker 3 00:05:20 Yeah. So my daddy actually is not acupuncturist. He was herbalist for people. Okay. And same did my grandfather. So they already know that herbal did not really know too much about acupuncture. So really interesting is Chinese medicine has a two major poison. One is, you know, botanical cross universe a lot actually. You need to use your own tools. You can use your hand Twitter, for instance, acupuncture. Or you can use needles. Of course you can use a storm, you know, <laugh> to Yeah, yeah. The human body to get in some response. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I'm lucky enough well grow up, uh, the first, uh, kind of bachelor degree or virtual medical degree oncology level started in 1979. So we, well, first class in traditional Chinese virtual medicine 1979. And I graduated 1983 after four years. And I went to the Beijing with school. I also, fortunately enough, become professor there.
Speaker 3 00:06:45 I taught there 11 years. So back to your questions, <laugh>, why I'm here in Florida, um, just like everybody else, when you have something set up or have something feel great, I was in Beijing feel great. I have the professorship. I was youngest of the associate professor in my school. And I feel good. I mean, wonderful. But in then the people says there's something going on in United States, You know, you might check out to the other side of the world how they're doing. Do not have 1980s for Chinese people. When come to United States, only two possible, possible. One is government have some fund sending you to United States, turn technology to something. Or you're getting full scholarship and, you know, come here for PhD or master degree training. So I, I'm not good with government <laugh> and uh, only choice. I Hi is second choice also.
Speaker 3 00:08:03 This first choice is you send the people is technology at once or wisdom medical to, to the Europe, to United States. <laugh> major is no change medicine. There is no way, no technology to other country. <laugh>. So, so, okay, let me try second away. Let me go to, you know, English school, learn some English, getting my, you know, the G tofu test. Tofu is lot easy. But uh, for g I hate it <laugh>, but you know, two, two months I do nothing but just prepare G for generally I pass it. I dunno, it's you, you do the gre, right? For graduate school?
Speaker 1 00:08:58 Yeah, the gre. Yeah. It's a hard test.
Speaker 3 00:09:01 Hard. It's so hard. It's so hard. Yeah. But the good things for that test is they have the one portion is, uh, mathematics 800. The, a lot of poison is 800 is a language. Yeah. So I calculated myself, my English poison if I get in 400 <laugh>, which I did. And then I able to go in close enough to 1200. So I'm getting good score actually, even though my English poison only like 450 <laugh> other than good enough to get this scholarship.
Speaker 1 00:09:37 Wow.
Speaker 3 00:09:38 Wow. And uh, so that's what I, I apply actually Wisconsin, I apply um, canal and also I apply uc, Davis. That's pretty much the best school do not time for Chinese people. Now nobody in the Florida, even we do know Florida exists.
Speaker 1 00:10:00 But you, you applied to Wisconsin too?
Speaker 3 00:10:03 Yes. Because Wisconsin is actually popular in do not time for Chinese people.
Speaker 1 00:10:08 Yeah. And that's where I went to ary school
Speaker 3 00:10:10 Is maybe that's, that, that's maybe that's one reason. Maybe their acupuncture. I don't know.
Speaker 1 00:10:16 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:10:16 Huh. So, um, so I, two years I do this, Nothing. I went to, I gave the good response from graduate school, from uc, Davis Con, Wisconsin, your background so strong, but we don't have a scholarship before you. Okay. So two years I say forgot it, <laugh>, and then all of a sudden, just before I came up, and then I get in, um, scholarship, the letter form from US University Florida. We have scholarship before you do you like to come to Florida? <laugh>. So I say, okay, so that in the light, my wife and I start to discover that we, we do not, there is no internet finding a map. We go to the bookstore, we find a big gen world map. I say, Where is Florida? Okay, finally find that on the east coast south, little of a little place <laugh> a Florida. Okay, that's a Florida.
Speaker 3 00:11:21 And then that's so really simple. So simple, easy way to say come to U States is by accident because, uh, the professor just, I dunno why they, they like my background, but then he decided he could me scholarship. Wow. So later on actually meeting him, the reason is he really like my background to, in herbal research for parasites control in horses. Because the Florida, the parasites is big problems. He getting funding from Pfizer, he left some of some money from Pfizer funding and have some extra little bit funding graduate student <laugh>. So that's what I, I get in that, uh, that hook.
Speaker 1 00:12:10 So you got money from Pfizer to study herbal parasite control.
Speaker 3 00:12:16 <laugh>. Great. So that's, uh, uh, yeah, that's very really interesting background. Yeah. Yeah. So
Speaker 1 00:12:24 Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:12:24 That's, So answer your questions.
Speaker 1 00:12:27 Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then didn't your, you didn't your one of your professors when you're getting your PhD have like a stroke problem or something that you helped him with?
Speaker 3 00:12:37 Yeah, that is very, very unfortunately. So I saw that, you know, my life is great, so lucky. But, uh, unfortunately when I come here about, uh, uh, almost just the day before I arrive, my professor has stroke. And so I land to get this away of Florida. You know, that's close to us. And, uh, but good news, my, his tech pick me up my airport. She tell me, which unfortunately, you know, the Dr. Asco is my professor has stroke. So next day I went to see him in a hospital. He basically is, cannot speak very well. And then, you know, stroke and, but he's very wonderful. And I use acupuncture, herbal help recover. So he very appreciate what I did when he recovered so quickly three weeks later, back to the work. And, uh, so he treated me like I was his physician. So I'm really lucky again,
Speaker 1 00:13:48 <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:13:49 But unlike point is couple months later has the second stroke and the third stroke. And the third stroke is, uh, making pass away. I, and I'm offered, and then all this money is go back to Pfizer <laugh>. So I, I, so I, I didn't basically didn't even, you know, the PhD program, you have to do coursework first. So we did some little data, like did in five, six horses use herbo for parasites. But then we didn't finish. So the, all the money is can finish. Oh wow. And unfortunately do not.
Speaker 1 00:14:34 And then what did you do? So how did you decide to start teaching here? Like
Speaker 3 00:14:39 And uh, start your, So, so do not have we have the, the professorship or this all this wonderful professor. And then, so my second, uh, supervisor, he was very good too. He said, No problem for your scholarship. Basically meaning I can get in my apartment or my food able to pay. It's about $800. Yeah. That it's 800 hours per month. But the tuitions free. So that's good enough for my one. But has said you having to find, in a way, sponsor your own research.
Speaker 1 00:15:21 Oh
Speaker 3 00:15:21 Wow. Because Pfizer is gone. You having to do something. So I start writing ground, send it to all the possible like sources, uh, uh, Mo Admir foundation, for instance, our other possible funding agent. That night I just write ground, ground, ground. One year I send it to every single agent, possibly able to think almost. I say like, you put the storm in the water. This no, never bag <laugh>. And uh, even there Loro, nobody even pretend the last receive this paper. So I can remember that in 1996. So 1995 is acupuncture is unpopular. Yeah. Nobody is the, is impossible. Okay. So
Speaker 1 00:16:16 Knew about it. Yeah. Nobody knew about even,
Speaker 3 00:16:19 So I, so my wife and I said, okay, that's, I remember that's like, uh, just right before, uh, Christmas, uh, 1996, I get in paid. I mean my, uh, dean, actually Latin chairman come to me. Congratulations Sha you have the wonderful, you know, news. I saw that my grant was funded. Wow. But actually is a private develop is a big check. Specifically do to acupuncture research in horses. So I was so lucky. So this, uh, that's amazing. Yeah. This without this donor, I basically probably my program is, is is we ending, you know, I bought it 19
Speaker 1 00:17:10 Back in China or something, right? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. And then you started teaching off of that or doing like,
Speaker 3 00:17:20 So the rhythm I able to, to, so there's lot, that money is not good enough for whole research. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then, but the rhythm in the donation because of her horse has a chronic diarrhea. The already in the hospital, in the large animal hospital for four days, kept dining, I mean getting thinner and thinner. And, uh, decided to put a sleep. So the daughter says, Wait a minute, this is my baby. You cannot kill him. I said, We do everything possible there. No way we able to turn around. I heard there is one Chinese guy in there. Can you guys asking him to help you know him to this horse? You know medicine that time? No, no, no, no, no. Impossible. Impossible. But administration says you have to because this month, the donor, so because of that large animal hospital inviting me, check this horse.
Speaker 3 00:18:24 So I use acupuncture, herbal actually help that host turn around quickly, four days later, four this to great. And the first is this just for hospital. So the owner, so appreciate, I still remember what is she said since thank you so much. Give me the special gift. That host is Aly back to us as Christmas gift is my turn to give my little gift to you. I know you have suffering little bit with your research. So hopefully this little piece of the check can help you continue your acupuncture research. So that's matter in my eyes. Okay. I don't need the right ground. I can treats getting didn't ground <laugh>. So I started to actually convince my department I can treat the horses. So I started, do I stay Mexico? So all those horses, whoever wanted to say. So I started kind of practice resource you not Florida, a lot of resources. Yeah. So farm by farm, we getting donation and I finish my research basically.
Speaker 1 00:19:36 Wow. From the, from
Speaker 3 00:19:38 <laugh>. So that is, and also past the, all those requirement, uh, thesis or all those wonderful, uh, PhD requirement. And then them come to almost just right before I graduate and then you not time they know, Okay, acupuncture actually has. So Mario and I did administration said, Okay, do you like it to become our faculty?
Speaker 1 00:20:07 Oh wow.
Speaker 3 00:20:09 I'm, So I say, okay. So I mean this is, I don't know, it's a good way to publicize. But the, the normal, you know, ads, everybody comply. But then I still remember says, will we prefer, has a PhD training with what medical degree has research of acupuncture. So I read the ads, I know power there are not too many people qualify for that position. So apply and I get it <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:20:40 That's funny. Yeah. Was it the job description was written specifically for years.
Speaker 3 00:20:46 So, so I'm not, I don't know specific for me, but then is a fair for everybody to apply <laugh> also it's a fair for the job because the job actually did the research of acupunc and also practice. So that's what, that's what established the acupuncture surveys in not Animal at the University Florida, that 1999. And uh, I started to teach the student acupuncture rotation. And then we also started to have the internship programs
Speaker 1 00:21:20 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 00:21:21 <affirmative>. So that's, uh, pretty much my,
Speaker 1 00:21:24 When I was in Wisconsin, I mean there was like stories coming through the, like veterinary grapevine. They must have been because I was, I was graduated in the spring of 98 from Wisconsin. And we heard about this Chinese, we heard about the Chinese man using acupuncture horses or cheap animals, you know? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. But then you, and then you started teaching classes because you opened up for veterinarians.
Speaker 3 00:21:55 Yeah, we, we teach some like, uh, this lot of requirement courses, but is, uh, elective course. So student able to choose to, to, you know, tot took in a really simple one credit course
Speaker 1 00:22:11 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But then you started your own school. Cuz I remember coming up there in like the little farmhouse and we had classes in the hotel, Right?
Speaker 3 00:22:21 Remember? Yeah. So we have the two portion in one portion in, I work for State University of Florida a lot is, uh, we working for state is wonderful. The UF gave me life and I feel home is a wonderful place for student, uh, also for faculty. A lot, lot of wonderful leaders and, uh, teacher, professor communi there. And then I
Speaker 1 00:22:47 Think it, it gave a lot of validation to the acupuncture and Chinese medicine too, by you being associated with them. I, for, for the Western mind, like people looking at it from the outside in like, oh, the, you know, he works for the University of Florida, so it must be like <laugh>. You know, It helped, I think raise it up
Speaker 3 00:23:09 Actually. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes she's interesting. Is something in from school from uh, must be good <laugh>. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. So that Stephanie is used to help a lot. Definitely. Yeah. So your, your question ask about the how the she university or used to be she institute established. It's very simple. So the reason do not, I was still a PhD student. I do my research, but I love teaching. I always said in my life, I have three love number one, basketball, <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:23:46 Basketball <laugh>,
Speaker 3 00:23:48 Number two, beach number three teaching. So Florida, we still play basketball every Saturday. We go to the beach Sunday, but my life's still not perfect. I did the teaching so it's high able to teach. I was a student, so one we're able to teach is to create the school to teach. And then before that, I already invited to like I was and some other, you know, uh, virtually organization, Kentucky, Georgia, and even Japan, Europe just do not have, I I was already invited to so many places. And one thing I find out that the, Oh, your style is so different from others.
Speaker 1 00:24:41 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Speaker 3 00:24:43 Couple of way listen to your lecture is so my like confused for many, many years for those long time study acupuncture. So I get motivated, you know, after hear about the feedback. And then they also says, Can you create your own school? Therefore we can learn from you. So I, so that's like a place in my brain, Okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But then really quick is like a click to me I feel I have to establish school was my friend. She graduated from other acupuncture school. She's a vet. And, uh, five years now five years study for a virtual acupuncture should never needle the horse, needle the dog yet. Wow. I said, well, okay, this was totally different. What I taught, again, before I entered to United States, I was professor for years acupuncture, you have to practice. So I feel there's some lack about this system.
Speaker 3 00:25:50 United States. It's not that really the way I prefer. I like people actual readiness need a practice. So I start, I say, how about I, since I so many interest in a lot of people interested in my background and then, then I can be teaching. I love teaching. This one I love mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we just, uh, funding a form. There is a garage. There is just, we repented cost $500 because that's all the money that we have. We have the middle classroom, we sit up. That's, uh, first class 13 student <laugh>. So that's what, uh, 1998 we established institute cost us $5,000 to establish.
Speaker 1 00:26:38 Yeah. I remember like the class that I took, we could all fit in that little tiny conference room in the basement of the hotel and then we would go out to the farm.
Speaker 3 00:26:47 Yes. So actually that's later on because that our, uh, farm place that's too small. So we need to rent. We have some more fun, more money. Now we're able to rent the classroom. Hotel that's accurate for us is big move from the, you know, Garge, <affirmative> C Classon. Now we moved to the hotel conference, hotel that's actually big, uh, uh, left for us <laugh>. But then, and remember, uh, on it's uh, power, that's 2002 or 2003, we went to the hotel. That hotel divided into three rooms. One known for us, they lot room for realtor people. Okay. They are c they are just energy so high, so loud, so loud <laugh>. And uh, we, we try to learn peaceful, quiet Chinese medicine. The slow from this dividing room. I feel that's not good. We need it back to the fun again. So that is a motivation I feel. We have to build our own school in private quiet horse farm. So that's what the current we have with that place. We have conference room because the realtor energy stimulate us <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:28:15 It got the, like she moving to move back to the horse farm. But I mean, it's so beautiful now. It's like there's been so many stages because then you started jing to herbal and that was a huge step.
Speaker 3 00:28:28 Yeah. So that's also is interesting is I never thought I would become, you know, a businessman. I love this lot. Definite is out of my gene. But after we teach the herbal course, we said this is the wonderful recipe is great. And then student best question is great medicine, but where we buy where we can get it, Dr. Said, please help us. I said this, this not my job. I'm professor teachings, you know your job to do all those, you know, But, and then this is so confused. The Chinese name drive us crazy. Nobody know what's going on. Can you help us doing something? Okay. So I discuss with my wife and, uh, she actually also, uh, University Florida employee. I said, Can you quickly do a job? Help me because our student need the herbal recipe actually knows exactly what's going on. So that's where 1998 we established gin. Also on the farm we granted all those herbal
Speaker 1 00:29:36 Remember that.
Speaker 3 00:29:37 And then that originally, you know, we package with hand <laugh> with, with my wife y help. And then that's our original form of the tinton, her product. That's 99.
Speaker 2 00:29:51 I remember the
Speaker 1 00:29:52 Hand grinders. I saw those. Yeah. <laugh>. But I think people need to, I, I love this because people have no ideas. Like you, you came from such humble beginnings, you know what I mean? It just started like, okay, there's a need, so let's do it. You know?
Speaker 3 00:30:09 Yeah. Again, all things then she, you still because of student pushing me. Yeah. And I love teaching. And then student like the herbal and then my wife support. It's so simple. <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:30:25 <laugh>. And then there were like all the animals that we were seeing. And I still, to this day, I feel like, I feel like the animals call out and be like somehow through a megaphone because they push us, the practitioners to learn more and be better. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know? Yeah. Search out for solutions. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:30:46 Dr. She, uh, can I just ask, you said you have, you rented this, um, private horse farm to start the Chi Institute and then you started to, to you founded, uh, Gin Tang Herbo company to grow the herbs on the farm. Um, so you had horses on the farm, but what other animals did you have on the farm?
Speaker 3 00:31:09 The aral were lot of grow. The herbo, we still import export, but it is a pharmacy, uh, do not wear grounding. Grounding the AR grind, you know, ar holders, <laugh>. Oh, okay. So yeah. Yes, we have horses. We also have the cows. We have the goats, we have the chickens. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:31:33 So, so your students could practice acupuncture as you, as you envision it
Speaker 3 00:31:38 Initially, yes. But then our student goes in so spoiled. Those all those student always go back. All those same patient plaques are getting, again, they're getting bored. So what we did, we have a wonderful local community. So we talk to the labor farm, you know, how about we getting exchange? If you are, pull your horses the door, come to the campus, we give you free acupuncture, Chinese medical evaluation, give you free acupuncture treatment. Get a one month free herbal medication. Oh, wonderful. So they bring the patient, our, uh, student can learn those rail patient. And then so the goin works beautifully for student can learn rail cases also help our local community because their pets need help. So it's a wonder,
Speaker 1 00:32:41 Well there was, there was a lot of the, um, greyhounds from the Greyhound racing groups and people we, we worked on greyhounds for so often and they were all like greyhounds off the tracks, rescued off the tracks.
Speaker 3 00:32:54 So yeah, there a lot of the injury, they need a lot of help.
Speaker 2 00:32:58 Yeah. Wow. Um, just, you know, I love the story of how you started the She Institute. I'm just curious, um, did you have a lot of resistance, uh, from people when you were, you know, you you wanted to start this Chi Institute? Did they, you know, say no, you cannot Or was it very difficult for you to, to sort of create it?
Speaker 3 00:33:28 The school? Actually, no. This one thing I learned this in United States is so much freedom. You can do anything you want. You can say anything you wanted to say. Wow. Uh, before I come to United States, I, I don't know this freedom. I still love United States because the freedom. And then, so I went there getting the Regis, making the registration for the company. She institute like a couple hours I get in the company. I was just so shock, as you can imagine for them speak English lot. So really well, you getting there actually people work. You establish your own business. So actually no resistance at all people. No problems. I get it. You do. But then business successful, not successful? Or are there, I need people criticize that she, uh, instituted doing this. Yes. The bunch of conventionally you teach this bullshit, you know, <laugh> and it's a approval. Uh, wood medicines, we do have data resistant, but then who care, who are doing clear, you know, I just teach a student what I think this knowledge is good for our patient, our animals and our student help animals and animal getting better. That's what they can't. Yes. They do have lot of those critique about this just, uh, you know, voodoo medicines says is not scientific approval.
Speaker 2 00:35:04 And if it didn't
Speaker 1 00:35:05 Work, you wouldn't, you would've gone out of business. Like nobody would continue to go take the classes and we wouldn't continue to buy the herbs and give the herbs if it didn't work, you
Speaker 3 00:35:16 Know? Yeah, exactly. So this is a feedback. Feedback is important. And it must be, have the positive return if only one way level work must be two way, you know, women situation, students, some the knowledge, this knowledge able to generally something good for their patient or for their business. Otherwise we're finished long ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:35:42 Did you? Yeah, I was um, I'm assuming you have family still in, in China. Which part of China are you from?
Speaker 3 00:35:52 I'm from original. I was born in Suan, that's southwest close to uh, uh, Tiba area.
Speaker 2 00:36:01 Oh wow. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:36:02 And then after graduating from uh, West school, 19 90, 83, 19 83 I moved to Beijing. So I worked there 11 years. That's where I met my wife and then have first child. So I'm really lucky, you know, stay there 11 years.
Speaker 2 00:36:25 Wow. Wait a minute. Um, respectfully, how old are you? I'm curious. Cause you look very young.
Speaker 3 00:36:34 I'm 18 years old. That's 40 years ago. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:36:41 'cause he gets up and does every day. Tai chi and basketball and the beach. <laugh>. Yes. <laugh>. You're eight Were 18 ago, 40 years ago. 1840. Okay. My is very, very poor. So what is 58 this year? Is that it <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:37:05 This. That's closely love <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:37:08 Close up. You do not look at Dr. She very young. You look very young. Very You.
Speaker 3 00:37:15 I feel, I feel young when, like yesterday, Saturday I still feel 18 years old. We have the 14, 16 years old. Yesterday we played, we challenged each other. So that's why I feel still 18 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:37:32 Wow. Amazing. Amazing. So what, what is your, you know, because you do, uh, you teach acupuncture and you look so young and you still act like an 18 year old playing basketball, you know. What is, what is your advice to, to students who, who want to look like you and feel 18?
Speaker 3 00:38:00 Stress is free. It's easy to say, not easy to do. Stress could be kind physical, could be fundamental. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, physical stress. A lot of us able to deal with, we just relax. We kind of do it. We just don't do it. You beyond your limit. So, so every of us has some limits, but I find most of us, we so competitive, we don't want to give up, is we wanted to challenge those limits. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> feel, don't challenge your limits because if you challenge, you might have broken when you was 18 years old, you can easily repair. But now after you pass 30 years, 40 years is too late to repair. So just prevention, try to avoid all those mental stress and the physical stress.
Speaker 1 00:38:59 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 3 00:39:00 Mental stress is prevention would be, do whatever you love. Don't do any sense. You don't feel you have to do it. So that's basically prevention. I love play basketball. No matter what I will play. I like go to beach. I just go to beach. Enjoy. I love teaching. I just teaching. I, i don't worry about any party. Say you cannot teach. No, you cannot teach your English so bad. You, you cannot speak Chinese really well. How you able to teach? Okay, I don't this I hear, but then I forgot. And so I still teaching <laugh>, I'm so short, you cannot play basketball. You're so short. But I able to shoot, shoot the hoop and I still able to play. So for me, that's just have fun. So I, I, I just, there again, anything for me, this, there's all those stress, whatever, just all those stress
Speaker 1 00:40:03 And have fun. I think that's a secret too. Like people forget. Americans have a really hard time to just have fun, to just, you know, if we relax, I set everything aside and go have fun, then there's all this guilt about it. And then that just creates stress. So Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:40:20 You create more stress. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:40:22 Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 3 00:40:24 So you do this like, uh, just mention about Tai chi. Definitely help. Tai chi is basically make your heart and the mind and then connected also make your mind and the body connected. We not connected your slow motion. Your body give you single and your, your mind give your body, okay, slow trophy feel good. Just like you generate your own music, energy flow in your body, making all those love connections and then feel good about it. So ti is one of the IC think tools everybody can do. It's very simple technique. You can easily breathe out anything smooth, you know, just in front of your, your chest holding and relax, moving. That's not simple. Touch forms, cooperate with your exhale.
Speaker 1 00:41:19 It's like
Speaker 3 00:41:20 S so many other forms
Speaker 1 00:41:21 Like meditation with the body though In
Speaker 3 00:41:24 Meditation. Exactly. Yeah. With the body. So the Tai G also is a part of meditate. Yeah. So you can use your emotion balance your, uh, uh, meditations.
Speaker 2 00:41:34 You know, Dr. Chip, you know I'm Chinese, but I I grew up in a very western education background. Uh mm-hmm <affirmative>. But how would you explain to someone who doesn't understand what is the difference between say tai chi and Chico?
Speaker 3 00:41:50 Okay, they, they're very similar. The chi chi refer to and work with chi is chi. So the chi actually is, is a chi is energy or the, the take the tan work this energy. So I need energy work is chi Tai chi the referred to there is enter ground yourself. This on universe, the titan universe. You are there, you are holding yourself, ground yourself. How you are able to ground yourself. You make your motion. Must be slow, slow motion. Make your feet try to study on the ground grounded slow motion. And then teach your, your mind. Also try to slow as as much possible your mind or tear your body. Try to balance lot of ground. So that is kind of, uh, uh, taichi. So Tai chi is one form of the chiko. Chiko is very, very broad.
Speaker 2 00:43:02 Okay. Okay. Thank you. He just learned something too. <laugh> something. Well, since I'm with the master, I should ask him. You know, he's the teacher. I should really ask him. Um, another question is, how would you explain what is acupuncture to someone who doesn't know what it is? I say I'm your number like fresh student. What is acupuncture?
Speaker 3 00:43:29 Simply, you can think about acupuncture. 2 cents. Number one, be the tools. This is almost like, uh, eight. So years ago they used a storm to puncture the self. They feel something after the puncture with storm. They feel good. Do you know why they use storm? Because the low metal eight 70 years ago, so three 70 years ago has a metal now has a needle. So needle or the skin able to have the, uh, fail sum. And then that's also the discover more acupuncture point. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then now we can use the laser. We can use electrical stimulation. So one of think about some tools we can use the needles, we can use a laser. We can't use electrical. The second about their, our body is some special location on our surface. That surface is almost like I Malaysia. We have the so many big city and then the nation says the whole bodies, the city is at spot special acupuncture upon spot because that spot has a lot of Nia, a lot of energy, free love and, and a lot of special sales.
Speaker 3 00:44:52 A lot of special energy gather that place. Just like you guys stay in Miami, there are lot of football team, basketball team, a lot of energy gathered in Miami. And then that's the Miami is one acupuncture point. So again, what means acupuncture? Acupuncture, basically we need a sum. Gave us this location. Special stimulation. We can use a needle. Stimulate the special al body. The body will definitely respond to your stimulation. After stimulation, your body take over. They combines by the cell. Say out for instance now from Miami, come to Gainsville gin, go to Canada. Okay. They all is connected. Energy connections now because of covid 19 and all a sudden Miami lack of any like medical supply, all those ing what's called the personal protection material like a face mask, all those, you don't have this now everybody's suffering. How you are able to fail now you need a stimulation with the tools. So we can s stimulation from the, the energy there is I 75 flight. We are able to courage here with university where a lot of those personal material energy, because we can single you stimulate, you cry, you single us. Now we know okay, you need a, so we stimulate I 75 with send this wonderful energy, those personal protection material, go to the Miami. Now you're getting protect. That's kind of how this work. So comparison between the body and the nation. That's one way to, to come think about it.
Speaker 1 00:46:48 That's a good analogy. So, so, but like right now with like the, um, with the supply chain problems, there's stagnation in the system, right?
Speaker 3 00:47:00 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:47:01 <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:47:02 So this flowing, like let's say this, uh, worker don't, don't want to drive with the track or there whatever. There's stag there. So now we know there's some problems. What do you do? We find some specific area, you know, where establishing is. We give the system the single, okay, this worker feel. Okay now if we have this smile, if we're getting more energy, the more balance then we to go to at work. And then the, and the system were fixed by the sale.
Speaker 1 00:47:35 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> give them good food, give them good things to drink <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:47:39 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:47:41 And it can flow. So
Speaker 3 00:47:43 This is medicine is one to, to the, uh, to, to a ladder is a very, very direct. So if we have the broken bones, surgical repair, if we have the information, we anti information, acupuncture is the right circling. Just like we talk about foot bit of, uh, supply chain calculation, not f from B, you needed the whole system work together. Somebody social work making the big smile or those, uh, salary rate or governmental regulation. Everybody, you know, getting good energy, separate want. So it's a whole system work together to able to achieve result.
Speaker 1 00:48:32 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Speaker 2 00:48:34 I like that. I I like your example. Thank you. Thank you. I never thought of it that way. I never thought of it that way. Ah,
Speaker 1 00:48:43 Well it's almost goes back to the thinking of like the earth as a whole. As as like our body is like the organism and then the, then we have all the acupuncture channels on the running around the earth.
Speaker 3 00:48:54 Yeah. So that's also original discovery. Do you know one with the theory why the how the acupuncture discovery because this, uh, monkey now started to stand because human being so their, their hands actually able to grab the, the fluids to eat. Right. So that's what we different from the monkey because the sh able to stand on the ground. But sometimes theon on the ground is hurt. But sometimes the body touch on the sharp storm. Oh, okay. When the foot on the ground will not on the get injured or get damage by the storm or stimulate by storm, the better. So this incidental I down my leg touched by the sharp stone, stimulate my stomach, 30 my feel better out. We make the stone specifically puncture sta 36. And then that's the initial acupuncture point. Discover is not a local treatment, it's more front the leg you treat internal, a medical disorder. So that is a, so basically point to understanding you get a single, you can use a storm, you can use your finger, you can use electrical, you can use a needle on the leg. And then, then, but okay, I I get it. And then they can heal by the say just that point
Speaker 1 00:50:31 <laugh>. So we're kinda like, yeah, getting stimulating the body. So then the body will take over and and stay in harmony.
Speaker 3 00:50:40 So the question is about each point has stand specific, some of the specific and if for stomach pain, some other point specific or gallad or for the liver, some other could for mental, some other could, could for long. So that's what the time become important. Good sense for those ancient people that have the time. Maybe 100 year discover one point so many hundreds, hundred years and then from 4,000 years ago to 2000 years ago, take 2000 years for then discover 365 points. I mean so 361 points. So yeah, take about the 2000 years. So again, they having the time
Speaker 1 00:51:29 <laugh>, so did they was, did they limited but there were like more points discovered, right? Or did they just figure like 360 and that's,
Speaker 3 00:51:41 Yeah, they have some more points to discover. So that's what one was the critique, uh, before I come to United States, all those Fromm Chinese medical SY system, two system, why we call TM our ladder is western medicine people. All those professor from Western Medical Department. Your guys so lazy for past 2000 years. You did the lesson, you still use everything 2000 years ago. So what our response is, it's two so years. That's good enough. Why do we need to discover new? We still use our ball. So two 70 years ago, we still use the middle. Two years ago, we don't need the modern, you know, machine because that's all we need
Speaker 1 00:52:28 Because it's working. If it works, then why?
Speaker 3 00:52:31 Because it's consistently the work. They don't have the resistant, remember C two, C one all. Oh yeah. Management has so many recall because new discovering, you know, side effect or you have the act resistant. But there the ideally would beate. So definitely channel me has limitation. I lot a lot of limitation. For instance, our dis comfortable by thin, but our dog and the horses sometimes, uh, we just, we don't, they don't tell us. I wish I would be like animal communicator. So I love the western medical diagnostic tools because they help us understanding what really they're suffering from. So, and then we have more specifically help them.
Speaker 1 00:53:26 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But you know, sometimes using the, what I've found in practice, like I use all the west, I love the western diagnostic skills too. Because you can get the x-rays and you can get the blood work and then it gives you clues. But what I've found too over the years, Dr. Shay is I can pick up using the TC VM and looking at the animal and the tongue and pulse and the, and the points. I can often pick up problems before they even show in the western blood work. Yeah. You know, like liver stagnation and things
Speaker 3 00:53:58 Like that. Yeah. That's the, that that's a wonderful you say, you know, integrate because uh, Chinese medicine is a critical with she face. She face many energy face, energy face. At this moment, Western medical tool cannot diagnose. For instance, I always have example. We have work on horses. A lot of those competition horse with horse x-ray, normal, any other diagnos image like mri, bone scan, everything. Normal bladder work is beautiful, but the host cannot perform that just letter. Right. And then, then the okay, what I can do every since normal, but the host everybody knows later normal, I'm a writer to No, the host cannot perform. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. That's a she problem. She problem. You cannot use wisdom medical tools to detect, but that's the she energy. We can use a tongue diagnosis, post diagnosis, we can scan the horses, pa the patient, discover where the she blockage is. You treat early stage before the tructure damage actually already effects problem. You have a prevention of later stage disease.
Speaker 1 00:55:19 Yeah. That's what I'm really trying to tell, tell people now to, yeah. Is using it for prevention. Like instead of going in just for your annual exam for your dog and cat, go in for like a bi-annual acupuncture treatment <laugh>, you know, because it really help. And I, my clients over the years, I, they get, they may have called me with a really sick patient, but then they're new animals that come in. They just want me at their house for prevention now, which makes my job easier,
Speaker 3 00:55:49 You know? Yeah, that's great. The best treatment is prevention. Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:55:54 Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2 00:55:57 Dr. Shay. Um, cuz Dr. Josie is, you know, she sort teaches me the basics and I wish I was a better student because I don't think I'm, I'm a very, um, academic students sometimes like, I think I have some blocks. I probably need some acupuncture somewhere to unblock my chi. Um,
Speaker 3 00:56:15 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:56:16 But you know, she always talks about the five elements in, in Chinese, traditional Chinese medicine. Um, maybe could you explain that? Um, <laugh>, you know,
Speaker 3 00:56:30 Five element. Okay. Yeah. So five element, the history coming from about 2,500 years ago. Those ancient people, they just fascinating about today's Sunday day. Tomorrow can be the cold and today can be winter and it can't be summer. So they figure out the universe must be high some forces and then force universe to make some change. So in our words, you universe cannot stagger forever, slow forever, cannot, uh, ruin it forever. Cannot groom the flower forever. There must be has on law to make universe to alternate, to change the case, alternate circle the change. And then so the observe, observe the finally they forgot there's the five forces that help universe to do the job by the sale. So for instance, in wintertime from let's say wintertime, typical December to February, let's say that around three months, that time those philosophers live in the laws of the Chinese erritory.
Speaker 3 00:57:48 It's very, very cold. They don't have the building, but they don't have the cave say a ready cave. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So they stay the cave because that army place able to survive. Otherwise there were, you know, frozen to death. So they stay in the cave, they thinking, thinking, okay, now in the winter time they unable to thinking, but then there is no light or most of it kind, no light because winter time is a dark. So that's okay, you know, winter time dark. But the white cause are so dark, because so cold. We have stay inside. But why is cold? Because of the snow. It floating snow, but the snow made out of the water. So the thing about, okay, for this season, there's one important sense make the universe become so cold is water. So you mean that the water dark, the winter, the together.
Speaker 3 00:58:59 So every single time we are thinking about some in cold, some is in dark. So observe some you fail is no night not is a time is referred to water, energy. Water, energy, if we go think about is very deep. Now we stay in the winter time, the cave, this cave is very really deep. So you back to our body where is a very, very deep, my hand is a very superficial go to. Very, very deep joint. The bones, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>, our of body, spine is deep. So S i B d D, spinal cord disorder, arthritis, bone marrow, that is water energy disorder.
Speaker 3 01:00:00 If ahead to look around is deep is a bladder. Re I drink the water, the water go to very deep flush out before. Flush out that go to my bladder. Go to my kidney. So re failure spies, I V D D arthritis not part of water disorder. So we have one patient if have with the multiple issues, renal failure, arthritis, iv d d not see one elemented disorder, not water disorder. You treat that disorder not only arthritis, better renal is better, this case better. And uh, bladder window function also is better. That's the beauty of the changing medicine. That grouping one energy for the bodies. So second element is wood water flow is outflowing. The water is moving when matter. River is moving and then able to make the, uh, sea si grow, the tray started grow after globe. We have some leafs. Leafs we say is a green color, green energy that is from the tray.
Speaker 3 01:01:26 So the use a very strange land is wood. I think they use wood because energy, that sprint time is coming from tray. Tray make the whole universe become green, new energy flash the new life. But all those energy is outflow. The tray, the tray and of the production of the tray is uh, tables, chopsticks is uh, chairs. All those wood material is useful is become that element. So, and s with splint time, they use w o o d present that element. So this element again is about the green energy life. Why is alive? Because winter time, your low life frozen in the cave. Now you have out door activity, fresh air, spring time, that's what the Chinese we call sprint festival New year. Why is called the new year? Because new life back to universe. So this element about life, about the uh, new energy, about the green colors.
Speaker 3 01:02:50 But go to medicine, uh, where is the green and blue? Blue eyes, blue gallad. The bio bio coming from liver cells. So lever, gallad, eye, all those uh, social ways, this element. So in our words, if the dog has has it, so eyes has a hyper tight gallad, slides, s all those disorder one elemented disorder, you treat the wood energy, the body will take care of yourself. Not on the eyes. Better liver is not, may become normal. And then the god also is better. And this about the life. If your body life is great. So with life we can move it to the slow motion. Piy able to move. But some we moving so fast, a per se seizure activity. That is a of action too much. So seizure activity also is a part of those element. Does that make sense to you?
Speaker 2 01:04:10 Yes. Wow. Okay.
Speaker 3 01:04:11 Yeah. Yeah. And then, then next element is about summer. So again, from winter, that is wa water. And spring time is wood. Now is really hot Summer, hot summer is hot. <laugh>. And then heart is fire because that's hot. So that's relatively easy. So the fire energy, where they go, they go to very high water is simple, is going down, but the fire is warm. Energy go to up. If you somebody don't know that you go into winter is so cold, you want your hand is for you put the hand on the top of the fire warm, but you put it below the fire, the low heat. So the energy of the fire, heat go to up. So the fire up, up, up, up going to here. Where is man? So soAnd is a part of the fire. So it's a mental disorder. Crazy people <laugh> behave with your dog.
Speaker 3 01:05:20 Thats is a too much fire. Too much fire basically. And then so how you're able to make the fire control the, the big organ as associa with the fire, the color of the fire is a red, the red organ is blood is a heart. So heart is house mind make our fire is stay inside of a heart. And then that's balance. If our heart is not able to function normally our mind is leakage and become crazy, become behavioral disorders. So this element relative is easy. Number four element is an earth disorder. This is more difficult for wisdom medical practitioner because the terminology can make a lot of the people, uh, uh, is very, very confused. It's so called earth element Aman, because it is a special sail from July to September. So that is called the latest summer. So it's after summer, but is is a late summer from July to September.
Speaker 3 01:06:36 So this uh, uh, month during that time, 2,500 years ago is a time for them go to the field to get in the food harvest, the, yeah, harvest season. The wheats and the combs. How is when the times go to harvest is a time when they fail become yellow because the, uh, the rice cone is uh, is getting habits usually ever since become brown, become yellow. Chinese color brown yellow is the same. So basically yellow color. So yellow color go into the tan to haves. The have is about the food, where the food coming from, coming from Mother earth. So they use earth element or earth presented this element. Number one reason because this is about the food, but where the food coming from, coming from earth. Number two, because the soil, you have rich soil, you have high yield of the crop. So crop yield depends on richness, quantity of the soil. Soil is a part of earth. So the therefore the use earth element present this uh, ceiling. So this energy corresponds to us one where you can think about the yellow brownish is a poop, right? <laugh>. So any of our, you know, eat, you know, lot of the British thesis. Okay, but where those, the digest system. So from all the way from mouth to defecate, all those classes and is earth element. So this basically deal with the food. Okay? And it's like,
Speaker 1 01:08:33 Like our mic, our microbiome, they're doing all this research on the microbiome. So the microbiome is like the health of the soil.
Speaker 3 01:08:41 Exactly.
Speaker 1 01:08:42 Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:08:42 Yeah. So now more and more, especially now for people, for the dog is very important for that, for horses. Everybody know. Without this, the horse cannot digest at all. Yeah. So last element is a more challenge for conventional mind. The element the winner is this season is a fall, autumn, the very busy for ancient time is sprint time, summertime. And, and then later summertime, winter time, they're doing nothing. Uh, the joke about for those ancient people doing nothing, they just the time make the baby <laugh>.
Speaker 3 01:09:31 So, so ancient time, lot of if looking birthday ever since most of the time actually is around that time because a human being 12 months was 10 to 12 months. So around the uh, the wind is they're so busy. Hunger time is relaxed. In the winter they have the time to able to generate the babies because they're doing nothing right now before they generate the baby. Now the food is already habits. They need to doing something. What do they do? They deal with the metal, the random. They deal with the metal because again, strong age that is a 6,005,000 years or long time ago and then become forced on years ago is a metal revolution. Metal revolution make those human being is very, very important for them. Before that time they use uh, the hand going to the tra grab the fluids or make the weapon to kill animals.
Speaker 3 01:10:40 So there are food resources. Number one is, is meat from animals or fluids. If the fluid's not enough, if the weapon not enough or if the cannot meat most of your die. Now the field illusion because the not depends on the animals, uh, food sources. They're able to control their own food by the metal weapons because they started to have the plum, the field have a lot of metal tools able to make the calm and the rise yield production much, much higher. So the metal we were losing become critical for them make the human survival rate much higher. And then because metals, so metal is the weapon defense, but also the weapon help their food production is higher, making the human being survival. So this is about the defense also about the metal element metal because again, that's the tools they use is a ton of social ways.
Speaker 3 01:11:57 Um, uh, October, November and the December time period. Um, and the internal organ is relatively think about the defense, think about immune system, our scale on the surface, our very protections. And then the soldier, they use a metal weapon, define their canon, do not time. There is a, uh, not a so diversity 2,500 years ago there is a, uh, one nation but has so many tendon, like over 200 tendons. So each canon their own like borderline. The borderline the soldier define this my tendon. So those soldier use the weapons define their borderline. So this is about borderline are scan or defense making lymph fornot our immune system. And this is a borderline, relatively most superficial. So superficial skin, hair code, superficial lung, so long, superficial scan the hair code, all those part of metal
Speaker 2 01:13:16 Element. That makes sense. Okay.
Speaker 3 01:13:19 Does that help you? This five element <laugh>? That is very long.
Speaker 2 01:13:25 Thank you. No, thank you. Thank you. Because you are right when you say the, the metal and of it's a bit difficult for conventional minds, the western mind to understand this, this part, you know? Um, cuz I, even though I'm Chinese, I said I grew up in a very western, uh, education. So to, to learn this now is like really like opening my mind a lot more, you know? And I'm very, very grateful that I actually have this opportunity thanks to Dr. Josie to meet you and for you to explain it to me, you know? Um, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 01:14:11 Now you kind of make more sense to you.
Speaker 2 01:14:14 Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:14:16 Any more confused area?
Speaker 2 01:14:20 I would say I would still need to practice the, the concept of metal. Um, because you said the word kingdoms and borders. So you're talking about the skin, the the lymph notes. Why, why the lung? The lung because we're breathing is, is that why
Speaker 3 01:14:39 One thing you can think about is, uh, superficial. Superficial because the border line that's most the border, superficial skin, superficial hair code cut our head off. Internal organ, which organ? Most proficial organs. Lung is the most superficial organs. Lung is rock on the, on the chest, protect the heart. Anybody use the life beating you? The first organ, the touch is the lung organs. Lung is the most professional organs.
Speaker 2 01:15:15 Okay?
Speaker 3 01:15:15 Human acupuncture practice. Most common, uh uh then is put the blood 13, 14, fifth on the back most each year. So many put the needle too deep. Touch the lung tissues. So lung is a very profess, very fragile organs.
Speaker 1 01:15:35 So they actually go into the lung on humans. If you go too deep on those points,
Speaker 3 01:15:40 You go too deep. Too much because, uh, because that and very superficial. So a lot of, uh, not needle, lung, that area, because can be really, really a dangerous place. Our dog, our horses is easier because that's doing on this. So their lung is much deeper. But human being lung is very superficial.
Speaker 1 01:16:07 And plus as we breathe in air, the lung is like the interface between the inside and outside.
Speaker 3 01:16:15 Yeah, that's a lot. We think about universe, Lot of the superficial air. Think about everything on the surface and all those risk for toilet terminals, all those airway go to what we call airway. Because this air going to there, going to the lung, lung coming back.
Speaker 2 01:16:41 So that's metal and that's metals, Lung. So like asthma,
Speaker 3 01:16:46 Uh, exactly. You get
Speaker 2 01:16:47 It coughing.
Speaker 3 01:16:49 Yes. Yes. And for to disorder, lower, lower airway disease days, uh, pneumonia, bronchitis, cough, asthma, all those associa with metal disorders.
Speaker 2 01:17:05 So, So what about
Speaker 3 01:17:12 FL is a, is a rather big, uh, concept area. One of my friend, he has a PhD, five year studies, afl.
Speaker 2 01:17:22 Wow. <laugh>. Wow.
Speaker 3 01:17:25 So let's just say, let me simply gave you tests about the one way to think about the flame is make the cough. So Chinese people think about why people cough. There must belem. So the learning is because the body has a responsive, if how, why the cal because there is something go to your respiratory, so your body actually try to get rid of, since the body don't need. So usually that's original coming from to stop the cal, How to stop the cal by transforming the flame <affirmative>.
Speaker 1 01:18:10 Mm mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 01:18:12 But they talked defense.
Speaker 1 01:18:15 Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:18:16 So a lot way you can think about is more broad. Flint is something thick material. Our normal material is less organized. If this just fat tissues, that's the flame
Speaker 2 01:18:35 Fat tissue.
Speaker 1 01:18:37 So fat,
Speaker 3 01:18:38 Too much fat, too much flame,
Speaker 2 01:18:41 Too
Speaker 3 01:18:41 Much. So some is oily, rich, oily. So flame basically don't move. They can move, but they cannot move fast enough. So like for instance, for the normal tissues. So lower protection, we did the move SVA come out easily. Our eye, uh, uh, equate, uh, is, uh, come out easily. But the flame, the sticky, they don't move easily is any, they stay in the risk for 2030, cal the still our belly, make our belly become bigger because that's so sticky. Not go away, become fat, even cause lymphoma or become the tumor mass so that you can extend it. That also can be part of thele.
Speaker 2 01:19:36 Wow. Okay.
Speaker 3 01:19:39 That, uh, helped a little bit. I don't wanna give to too much, otherwise it's getting you more confused.
Speaker 2 01:19:44 No, no, but this is, this is very interesting for me because I've always been curious, you know, um, I say I'm a, I'm a not a very good student, but I have a curious mind. And I think I, it's because it depends on the teacher. If I don't like the teacher, I don't pay attention. But I like you obviously. That's why I'm paying attention <laugh>. Yeah. And honestly, you know, if people tell you it's true, you know, also what you said, you know, people say your English isn't good, but you still teach. And I'm actually understanding it, you know, and, and I'm actually learning, which is fantastic. I think that is why Chi Institute and now is called Chi University has survived for so many years. Since what? 1996?
Speaker 3 01:20:38 1998.
Speaker 2 01:20:39 1998. You know, till now, you know, and
Speaker 1 01:20:43 Spread. It's spread all around the world. How many countries is it in now? It's like,
Speaker 3 01:20:49 There're about 20 countries.
Speaker 2 01:20:51 Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:20:52 Just, just about 20 countries. Yeah. And I remember you had, there was a special visitor coming back from China because I think they gave you an award or something from China. Like you're going, you are taking traditional Chinese veterinary medicine back to China in a way. Like,
Speaker 3 01:21:09 Because yeah. Really? Yeah. That's, uh, uh, yes. Sometimes that's uh, uh, yeah, that sometimes each of us, some proud of yourself. <laugh>. That's once I proud of myself is actually teach, uh, so many Chinese student, they're able to go back actually help the Chinese community.
Speaker 2 01:21:32 That's awesome. May may I ask because you know, well we know the history of China, the politics, everyone sort of knows that and understands. And also why it was very, um, challenging for a lot of people, especially in the 1980s to come out, as you said, there was only many two options, two ways to come out. You know, either government or, you know, uh, some PhD sponsorship, you know. Um, so how would you describe your style of teaching acupuncture compared to say even um, those in China?
Speaker 3 01:22:17 Uh, so I think, uh, once thing, my teaching style is, so I would go back to long term ago, Well, 1983, well after graduate from, uh, med school. And my mentor is great. We have the one, he's main teacher professor teach internal medicine. I was his assistant. So I'm assistant lecturer basically. And I help him, I prepare the course material grade for student. And then he said, Christ, you have to teach one hour for this course. He just have to the Chinese, basically you have follow your professor order. So I say yes. So I prepare and then I know immediately I know that's nothing easy. I mean, I never teach before, so I don't know able to teach. So I ask him his professor song, I said, Preferr song, how if I teach, he, he was great professor and one of our best professor. And he told me, think about when you was college, who you like your most.
Speaker 3 01:23:37 And then use his style to teach. I think that is a, a very wise give me, uh, like advice. So I, and then I go home to think I have the five major profess at my best school. Each of my, some good one professor always, uh, told the story. I tweeted this case, this case, this case, this story. Sometimes his old, he forgot. So this story, all the story repeat election of times. So I like his style, the story. But sometimes this like story is so detailed is one our lecture, two story. We didn't get that story. So I said, Professor is great. But then two, uh, too much story because we didn't learn too much. Excited. It's wonderful, excited. But then we didn't learn. A lot of are like the very scholarly, It's always straightforward and like metal, you know, very organized is, uh, if this, this, this very 1, 2, 3, 4, straightforward.
Speaker 3 01:24:50 I like it. But it's boring. It's so boring. It's uh, you feel not interesting. All of a sudden you lost a little, but you forgot it <laugh>. So, and then my third professor, he, he love reading all those like literature I like to use. Ok, this textbook, this about the site dish from different people idea from other resources. So he gave us comparison. He will use this, the main swim people think this, this actually some other source. So they don't give con conclusion. They just lay out those, uh, uh, uh, argument. Let a student out. What your like, so I like this because give me, okay, almost you have many dish, but now you have side dish, have some little bit something else. You are able to Twin <laugh>, my first professor, he also is great. He teach our herbal goal. His aral is just memorized.
Speaker 3 01:25:52 All those ancient, the textbook, the level like, uh, look, <inaudible>, they just straightforward from his head. <laugh>. I was so shock. Okay. And then so <laugh>, I like that style. Strat is so long you ever since he come, like all those ancient, the Chinese, uh, medicine for people and also for what you mention textbook, they can memorize. They come, which page can they come out? So I said there, there's some very, very unique scale. And then last professor, he grade two, he always like use special material. He wanted to demonstrate, uh, his point by special tools. He made like five element. He make some special type of that he join. Okay. This because his good, his artist, he join, we like it because it didn't say too much. Immediate one image equal to one song. Word. Right. So I like that too. So after that, and then since my mentor, tell me follow what you like your professor most. I like all my five professors. So what I do, so is integrate. So I integrate pretty much try to follow all those five professors essence. So become kind of, even though my, like even I speak Chinese a lot, very clear <laugh>. So I try to basically to, to make sure student learning something also excited.
Speaker 1 01:27:32 Yeah. Cool. That's awesome.
Speaker 3 01:27:36 <laugh>
Speaker 2 01:27:37 Also, um, you know, you you are talking about, um, the, you know, like your, your professor, he was a very metal element. He will present da, right? So how would you describe yourself? Which, what element would you be?
Speaker 3 01:27:54 I think I'm earth.
Speaker 2 01:27:55 You're earth.
Speaker 3 01:27:56 Earth is basically is flexible. I'm very flexible. And then student that push me to generate gin time, for instance. <laugh>, I'm so flexible. Okay, I do, if you want, I can do it. And then, so usually Earth also don't force the issues. I kind of, um, cannot force the issue. If you do it great, If you don't do it, it's okay too. So that's kind of myself. It's more arts Constitution has a tolerant, has flexible <laugh>
Speaker 1 01:28:32 Gets along well with everybody. But that's kind of how you describe all of your different teachers. And then earth as earth. You just brought all of those, all of the elements together and united them.
Speaker 3 01:28:45 I Why, why
Speaker 2 01:28:47 <laugh>? I, I think, I think it's beautiful that you, the way you described saying your earth element, because your school is basically a farm, a farmland. You know, you use the earth, the soil to teach, you know, to create, uh, Chi institute, Chi university, you know, to, to to, to be where it is today. It really is from the soil, you know?
Speaker 3 01:29:13 Uh, thank you. Yeah, it is a front soil <laugh>.
Speaker 2 01:29:17 It grew up
Speaker 1 01:29:18 From this little tiny, like sapling. And now you should see the, the building is beautiful and it's also, it's solar powered and like green architecture and everything. So
Speaker 2 01:29:29 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So Doctor, say, what, what would be, you know, um, we are in the year 2022. Now, what is, you know, your wish or your vision for Chi University? You know, uh, for the future?
Speaker 3 01:29:49 Um, Chinese medicine, including human tm, tcm and the traditional virtual medicine, we have two major area is weak. Very, really weak. Number one, define the chi. What is the chi? Can we measure at this moment? No chi meter, no measurement of the chi. So one of my way, or I'm thinking hopefully 10 year from now, now we're able to make the she measurable. Like now you and us, three of us talk, we may have some special energy filled. We are able to measure how much she you have, how much she have left, and where that she stuck and, uh, how bad it is. So that's now we do have the, our lab, we call the, uh, biomedicine lab. We have one master degree. Now started to measure the G. There are some very interesting data. Hopefully we are able to generate the good, uh, like device able to measure in the dog.
Speaker 3 01:31:05 Horse may able to apply shma as well. So that is, uh, we also try to build a PhD program, which is able to understanding not only measure that she, but actually, uh, why those, she able to move from, uh, Zu to Miami. So there's some mechanism. So understanding mechanism, how does she link the LU system, hormonal system or which cell getting involved? That is basically to a number one measure. Number two, able to understand it, why, how this work. And then, so hopefully 10 years from now we're able to get in those two type area.
Speaker 2 01:31:55 Wow. Wow. I love that <laugh>. I love that. And you know, so
Speaker 3 01:32:01 Hopefully one day, one day people will just say, Okay, actually this makes sense from those Western medical training now. Cause we, we open our mind, we are thinking this makes sense, but way, hopefully one day, 10 years for now, make those closeminded. They're also thinking that actually makes sense for them. They're like love sales, you know, which pass away singular. That's what we want to discover
Speaker 1 01:32:28 Uhhuh.
Speaker 2 01:32:30 Because to be honest, like a lot of western minds, when you talk about tea, you know, energy, um, they don't believe it or they like, they say woo woo stuff, you know, like, they
Speaker 1 01:32:43 Like shut down. They just like shut down, you
Speaker 2 01:32:46 Know? You know. But geez, actually all around us, isn't it?
Speaker 3 01:32:51 It is. But again, now we try to actually try to fund funding. We talk about the research. This can be big, big challenge. Now, Dr uh, uh, uh, John, Dr. John now he's director of the, uh, um, uh, bio-medical center at university. Now they not to submit. NIH grant is Tuesday is coming Tuesday, uh, which hopefully this grant able to get something, but, uh, maybe not, but it's still, that's our direction. So maybe we're able to even get private donation to really support, understanding, number one is the chief everybody talk about, but how to measure. That's why what is easy. We can use electric single, we can use bio, measure it to record and then understanding why. So now this one we try to figure out the, the just measure. So measure the single, this first phase, second of phase understanding how and why those single are able to move around from one place to ladder. Could be luve, could be another lu, could be hormonal, could be not hormonal. We don't know. That's what we want for out, how it work.
Speaker 1 01:34:16 Hmm, interesting. Wow. So you're back, it's like coming full circle back to looking at the grants and the <laugh>. Yes. Yeah. Take the next step. But that's a huge, that's a big step because that's always been the issue. Like, what is she and
Speaker 3 01:34:33 How she make. Yeah. Yeah. That's the, that's the huge, Again, sometimes you ask it the how many people challenge you. That's always challenge. So now how do you face to challenge? We just use research or scientifically demonstrate actually, to answer that questions. It's a very really challenging questions. But I think, uh, we have to do it.
Speaker 1 01:34:56 That'd
Speaker 2 01:34:57 Be cool. Wow. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Awesome. So I I I love, I love this conversation today, Dr. She, it's like, you know, um, you have no idea how excited I was when Dr. Josie said that you said, yes. You know? Um, I was over the moon because I have long admired you from afar, even though I'm, you know, uh, uh, I'm just a pet parent. I'm in Singapore, but I always notice all the people that I admire, like Dr. Josie, you know, came from the Chi University, you know? And so I was always wondering, ah, what is this Chi University? You know? So I tried to Google for it and check it out. And then I realized, oh, uh, some vets in Singapore who practice acupuncture actually went studied under Chi University. So I'm like, Oh, okay. You know? So I, you know, I've always been very curious to try and find out who is the founder of she University. And to be honest, I actually wrote an email to your university, I don't know how many years, several years ago, asking for an interview from you. But I never heard back from anyone. Uh, probably because my email went to the spam folder, you know? I'm
Speaker 3 01:36:16 Sorry. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 01:36:17 <laugh>. It's ok. It's ok. The universe, you know, it was meant to be through Dr. Josie, you know, But it, it just, it just, I find it very moving and amazing that you came from China. You went to us. Now you are getting everywhere.
Speaker 3 01:36:40 <laugh>. Thank you. So ems, right? Ems?
Speaker 2 01:36:45 Yes.
Speaker 3 01:36:46 Um, may I ask, do you, I I can say your speak is some degree of the British accent, right?
Speaker 2 01:36:54 Yes. <laugh>.
Speaker 3 01:36:55 So you can educate in British school or,
Speaker 2 01:37:00 Um, I grew up in Singapore. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I did study in England for a while. Okay? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I, I went, I went to school there. Um, not that I was a very good student, uh, <laugh>, <laugh>. I tried and doubled, like, you know, what is my passion? What was I enjoying? I enjoyed art. Um, I like history. I like art, but I was never a good student. And I basically partied too much. I was a very naughty, naughty, naughty girl. Okay? I was very, um, I was the worst daughter you can ever have because I was not a typical Chinese daughter, where, you know, a tradition is you should listen to your parents. Um, I was very rebellious. Um, partly because, um, my, my family, um, had family problems. So I was, was just reacting to everything, you know? Um, I don't know. What element would that be? Hmm, Let
Speaker 3 01:38:00 Me see. That's wood.
Speaker 2 01:38:02 Wood, yeah, wood.
Speaker 3 01:38:04 The wood basically wanted, it's good. I love wood because wood is make change. Now. It's your generation making the change, but an in, when you change, sometimes action, hopefully your life not back to the good now. Right? When you at
Speaker 2 01:38:21 It's much better now. It's much better now, because I, I used to be so unhealthy. I used to smoke. I used to drink a lot, um, party a lot. You know, I mean, like, yeah, I just did everything wrong or, you know, I just did everything. Um, not everything, but a lot of things. Let me just clarify that <laugh>,
Speaker 3 01:38:42 <laugh>
Speaker 2 01:38:42 Keeps my parents this thing to this one day. But, um, but I realized, you know, um, I was so unhealthy. And how I got better was actually through tcm. It was a Thai, a Taiwanese friend of mine mm-hmm. <affirmative> one day in Singapore. She told me, Hey, let me bring you to a TCM doctor. But cuz I grew up in a western environment, my parents, um, were not very Chinese. They, they were born in Malaysia, Maun, okay? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And, and I'm first generation born in Singapore. You know, they, they grew up during the British colonial time. My parents are in their eighties, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so they, they always wanted me to learn, um, English because they felt I must speak proper English if I have to get in order to get a good job. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that, that was the thinking in those days, in, in
Speaker 3 01:39:44 Colonial. That's why they speak beautiful British. The Queen. We call the Queen English. Why did
Speaker 2 01:39:51 Yeah, the Queen English. Well, I dunno how queen is nowadays. It's quite bastardized to be honest with, with, with, um, TV and Netflix. I'll be honest. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 01:40:04 But, but thank you. Thank you. So, you know, I, um, so I, I had, um, gut problem, microbiome problem, so I couldn't think. So suddenly I had brain fault depression. Um, I, I was overweight and everything and water retention. So I went to the TCM doctor, and I, I didn't believe, you know, I, I, I didn't know what it was, but my Taiwanese friend, she said, Try, try. I was like, Okay, okay. I try, you know, And the Chinese doctor, she took my pulse and she thought my, you know, she, she felt my pulse and, and took it. And she was, you know, I just keep, be quiet and just, you know, feel my left, feel my right, you know, And then look at me and my tongue and everything, and my eyes, right? And after a while, she said, um, actually she said this in Chinese.
Speaker 2 01:40:58 She was, but in translated in English, it's, I can help you get better, but only if you want my help. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And something, what she said, even though it was in Mandarin and my bedroom wasn't very good, but it, I understood it. And it, it cut through this thought in my brain because I was very black. I was very, I, I had very bad depression at that time. And when she said those words, it suddenly, it tongue, you know, uh, it hit me. Yeah. And I went, Oh my goodness. A total stranger said something very calm and very simple to me. You know? It's like, Only if you want my help, I can help you.
Speaker 2 01:41:54 And I almost cry because I, no one has ever said that to me. And that's when I decided to trust her blindly. I took blind faith. I jump and I said, Okay. So she gave me all sorts of herbs in the pill, you know, uh, the, the, uh, I don't know, call it those, um, tan, I don't know what it's, Yeah, tan. The, the, the, Yeah, the, the the Chinese pills. Yeah. The round balls. And there was so many of it, <laugh>, I remember, you know, lots and lots of it. And then she did gua on me. Um, the, uh, she used the, the, like a spoon and she rub, Yeah. And an acupuncture on me as well. And I remember my whole body was black in color. <laugh>. It was all bluelight. Like, I looked like someone beat me up, <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know.
Speaker 2 01:42:53 So I had to wear long sleeves off. People think I got into a fight, you know? And she did the, um, the suction cup on me, the hot, the the cup. Oh, yeah. So apparently I had a lot of, uh, dampness in, in, in my body, and she had to take it out. So I went to her for one whole year. I would see her every one two weeks because in Chinese medicine, uh, you must adjust the, the medication. And, uh, you must, you know, change. And she must feel my pulse and see what is it improving. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, just, just to make sure that I'm, I'm, I'm responding well. So for one year I went back every, every week and Wow. Yeah, you're a good patient. My body had this change. And the best part was I, this is where my mandarin failed me, or I did not hear it from her, but I didn't realize I would have a major detox.
Speaker 2 01:44:02 So I went to the toilet many, many, many times. Like I had massive, like a lot of shit came out, diarrhea. And, um, I don't, I, I, I think that part, it kind of, um, maybe she told me or didn't tell me, but I wasn't prepared for it. So I had to keep going to the toilet several times a day. For, for, And you pur for many times detoxified. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. It was very strong. And I was not, I was like very shocked that, my goodness, what was happening. But me being a very low IQ person, I just went, Okay, just trust her. Just trust her. Just trust her. Just keep going back. And, you know, slowly and slowly. One day the, the darkness sort of lifted from my brain. And then I started to think a little bit better. And then I started to smile a little bit more.
Speaker 2 01:45:03 And then I started to write again cuz I was, um, in the creative arts. So I used to draw a lot and write a lot. But for many years I had a block. It was all black. And it is thanks to her that she kick started and helped my body heal. And because of her, I, I realized, you know, um, I needed to take better care of myself. So I started to learn about, cuz she was telling me during that wire, You can eat, eat this, don't eat that, eat this, don't eat that <laugh>, you know, don't take cold water, drink warm water, you know?
Speaker 2 01:45:49 Yes. And oh, cannot eat too much, uh, cabbage, um, you know, uh, um, the, the, the, the cabbage, you know, is, um, <inaudible>, it's too cooling. Cause she said my body was too cooling, it was too cold, so I needed more stimulation. So, you know, so I was like, Oh my goodness. Oh, this is working. And I was like, you know, like a experiment. I went, Okay, okay. I try, I try. So that's how I started to have an interest in health. Because of her, you know, thanks to her, I, I started to open my mind to, oh, tcm, it's not bullshit. Because my, my mother, when she was very young in Malaysia, they had a lot of bad Chinese doctors. Uh, you know, the not very good ones. They, they, they sell you the, the herbs, but then it, they don't, they don't make it properly or there's something wrong with the, with the quality, so you get sick. So she always felt her experience in Malaysia was that Chinese doctors are not good. Mm-hmm. They're all cheats. They're off snakes. <laugh>, that, that was you
Speaker 1 01:47:10 Out <laugh> salesman,
Speaker 3 01:47:12 SN bio.
Speaker 2 01:47:13 Yes. You know, so for me, yeah. Uh, learning this, and it's like, I think, uh, 2000. Yeah. Uh, yeah, almost 20 over years ago. Wow.
Speaker 1 01:47:28 Yeah. And that you pass it onto all of your animals because she rescues cats. She has a house
Speaker 2 01:47:39 <laugh>. So
Speaker 3 01:47:40 That's what
Speaker 2 01:47:41 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I have 12 cats, uh, and one dog. Now, I used to have a little bit more, but I take care of the community cats in my neighborhood. So I do tnr trap to return, and we have, uh, volunteers to feed and take care of the cats. I, my core volunteer group, I slowly teach them, Let's not feed dry food. No kibble, let's feed wet, canned food or raw or mix, you know. So I try to, uh, improve the diet even for our community cats. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:48:19 Great. So you are actually now, you still living in Singapore?
Speaker 2 01:48:23 Yes. I, I went to England when I was about, uh, 16, 17, I think. Yeah. After my old levels, uh, in Singapore we follow the British system. So it's called the GCE O Levels in my day, I don't know about now. Um, so it's like high school to about 16, and then 18, 16, and then 17, 18, you go to college or a level college, um, in the uk. Um, and then after A levels, you go to university over there. Yeah. So that's, yeah. So I, I was in England for about maybe 10 years plus. Yeah. And
Speaker 3 01:49:06 So I, I I, I, I apologize. I I, I always thought actually, uh, you and the Joseph actually live in Miami. I saw that maybe you are, you are her partner. So <laugh> No, no. I live,
Speaker 1 01:49:20 She's my, she's my podcast partner. But yeah, with Zoom you can be on the other side of the world.
Speaker 2 01:49:27 She, she's my teacher. I, I, I look at Dr. Josie as my mentor also, what allow you, you know, in terms of the spiritual side. But I live in Singapore, so yeah, it's about 3:48 AM in Singapore now.
Speaker 3 01:49:41 Yeah. So that's what they're wondering. Now.
Speaker 2 01:49:47 I know <laugh>. Yes. Uh, yeah, Yeah. A surprise. I dont <laugh>, uh,
Speaker 3 01:49:53 I'm sorry about that. That's, uh, youre don't
Speaker 2 01:49:56 This's not good. That's, No, no. It's <laugh>, right? It's not for tc. <laugh>. <laugh>. Well, I, I try and make for it, uh, with other things. I do try to catch up on my sleep. Um, that's why I, I try to, um, try to eat a little bit better. I try to exercise, I do community work. I grow my own garden, uh, urban garden. So I grow my own, uh, vegetables, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I do a bit of Chico, but I'm not, uh, very good at it, you know? But I do practice, um, exercise. I walk my dog every day. Uh, I take care of my cats. So they, there's a lot of movement. Um, yeah. But I do this, um, because I love to learn from people like you and, you know, and Dr. Josie and I have found that, um, if I have to be awake during midnight onwards in Singapore, to be able to get stories and get to know people like you, to me, it's well fit.
Speaker 2 01:51:08 It's, it's like goal, because this is knowledge that I, I learn. And the best part is because you agree to talk to me and we can record it. We can share it with the rest of the world, you know? And for me, this, um, this is, uh, it is not a sacrifice, you know, Like, you, what is your joy? What is your passion? What is your love? Your tree loves? You have your basketball. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you love your beach and you love to teach. And for me is, this is what I love. So, you know, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a terrible hour for me in terms of my chi. But it's funny because I, I, I bring it, it makes me feel very alive. And I, I can say that very, uh, very meaningful. It's very meaningful. It's very inspiring when I talk to people like you, because it makes me think about my life and like, you know, uh, how can I improve my life when I look at yours? And I love how, you know, you describe your journey, you know, coming from China, how you started the school, and how flexible you are, and that you are an U element. And I'm like, okay, I'm a wood, so, you know, I gotta, I gotta try to be a bit more flexible, <laugh>. Cause sometimes to be honest, I think I'm a bitch. Sorry if I, you don't, that's your
Speaker 3 01:52:46 Give for advice.
Speaker 2 01:52:47 Very bitchy. I can be very bitchy and judgemental. So as soon as I think I'm metal, you know, very inflexible. I don't know.
Speaker 3 01:52:55 Try be yourself. Actually, that's more important. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:53:00 That's, There you go. So
Speaker 3 01:53:02 If that's, you are, you know, careful that way, because that make you happy.
Speaker 1 01:53:07 <laugh>. Thank
Speaker 2 01:53:09 You. Thank you. Yeah. So I, I am I, it's funny you, we are talking about this because right now I am trying to figure out where my path is taking me, you know, in life. Um, it's, it's been more spiritual than anything the last few years, especially with Covid. Um, that's why I think the universe has a funny way of linking me up, Dr. Josie, and now with you, and for you to share these stories. I, I find it's, you know, your students are very blessed, Dr. Cher, to have, have you as a teacher.
Speaker 3 01:53:45 Actually, I'm blessed because student
Speaker 1 01:53:47 <laugh>,
Speaker 3 01:53:48 You know, because if no student I don't have, my love is lost. So actually, because student gimme love. So I enjoy that.
Speaker 2 01:53:57 Well, I, I hope one day I can come and visit you and, and, and, and, and visit you and Dr. Josie because, um,
Speaker 1 01:54:05 This
Speaker 3 01:54:05 Is, Yeah. We, we have wonderful plays. We're wonderful beach. If you
Speaker 2 01:54:12 Basketball, the ball has hit me in the face before, but I will, I will, I will, I will stand and support you when you play your basketball at the
Speaker 1 01:54:24 Great,
Speaker 3 01:54:24 Great, great.
Speaker 1 01:54:26 Thank you so much. Thank you so much for taking this time with us. It
Speaker 3 01:54:29 Was just special. Thank you. Yeah. By, by the way, ems, I love your behind your, not your sound of your art.
Speaker 1 01:54:37 Ah, okay.
Speaker 2 01:54:38 No, it's not my art. Uh, this is, this is from another artist that I quite like. But yeah, it's, it's, uh,
Speaker 1 01:54:46 The's. Isn't it fun?
Speaker 2 01:54:48 Yeah. It, for me, it sort of describes how I want to look at life and education and knowledge, you know, and learning. Uh, it shouldn't be all metal. It should be more flexible, you know, like earth, you know? Um, and, and to learn by stories. Yeah. Like you, you know,
Speaker 3 01:55:09 White Ruka, there is a five element.
Speaker 1 01:55:12 Oh, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's green and yellow. Oh, okay. And red and the white for metal.
Speaker 3 01:55:20 Yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1 01:55:21 I never thought of that. There's white for metal. Oh my goodness. Blue for water. Oh, wow. And then the fire, and then the yellow. Know.
Speaker 2 01:55:31 Oh,
Speaker 1 01:55:32 <laugh> what? Funk. It's a fire element background.
Speaker 2 01:55:38 <laugh>. Okay. I'm gonna change this then. Is it
Speaker 1 01:55:40 <laugh>? I know she, on my, my group, we take like each season and explore one of the elements. So we just started into earth element, like, yeah. So she's been doing that with me, and we've been taking one herb and like a stone and just feeling the energies of it as we move through. Great. Yeah. Yeah. It's been fun.
Speaker 3 01:56:05 Great. Great. Okay. So wonderful. So high piece of both of you. And then go back to sleep, Emery. Hopefully you can get some sleep. <laugh>. Thank
Speaker 1 01:56:16 You.
Speaker 2 01:56:18 Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 01:56:20 Please come to Florida. I, I may go to the Singapore.
Speaker 2 01:56:24 Oh, come, come to Singapore.
Speaker 3 01:56:27 I will email you
Speaker 2 01:56:28 <laugh>. Yes, yes, yes. Email me. Yes. You have family here? You have family here? Yes.
Speaker 3 01:56:33 Yeah. Well, my sister in, uh, Singapore.
Speaker 2 01:56:37 Okay. Okay. Yes, I'll be, I have, Please do. If you ever come this way, send me an email.
Speaker 3 01:56:45 Okay, great. Well,
Speaker 2 01:56:46 That'll be fine. All right. Thank you, Dr.
Speaker 3 01:56:49 Thank you, man. Byebye. Bye
Speaker 1 01:56:55 Bye.
Speaker 3 01:56:55 Bye
Speaker 1 01:56:56 Bye.
Speaker 4 01:56:58 Wow. I'm so thankful and grateful that you took the time to listen to this podcast. It would mean the world to me if you could subscribe, download, rate, review, and share this with others whom you care about that may enjoy it as well. Thank you. And remember to be kind to yourself and others. Have a awesome day, everyone.
